Neon Nexus Damn, Choom... Did You See Your Face?!

[a dip goblin]

So the town loss is my fault. I misinterpreted Alu’s post and picked wrong. I thought Zell and Vash were both guilty with either cg or Kelly rounding out the third. I picked the one person I shouldn’t have… but at least I should earn an “I killed Zell badge” so it’s not a total loss

Lol nah. I had to hide as much as possible and just hope you picked right. I was basically certain if I spelled out "kill vash" he would have blown the fuse right then and there and either you or I would have gone along with zell. I'm thinking he targeted you before though, so you wouldn't have gotten the chance to kill.

It was a fun game figuring out which town would kill another town next lmao.

 

[Jon]

Lol nah. I had to hide as much as possible and just hope you picked right. I was basically certain if I spelled out "kill vash" he would have blown the fuse right then and there and either you or I would have gone along with zell. I'm thinking he targeted you before though, so you wouldn't have gotten the chance to kill.

It was a fun game figuring out which town would kill another town next lmao.

Kut was his blind night 1 bomb selection.

 

[a dip goblin]

Kut was his blind night 1 bomb selection.

Well that was lucky for him lol. So yeah I was worried about saying too much for a legit reason then.

Very short game because everyone kept killing each other. Still fun this time around, and not nearly as broken as the first one, even though it could end in a second straight lone wolf victory.

 

[Jon]

Well that was lucky for him lol. So yeah I was worried about saying too much for a legit reason then.

Very short game because everyone kept killing each other. Still fun this time around, and not nearly as broken as the first one, even though it could end in a second straight lone wolf victory.

Yeah, average of my games has been about three days. I find Zell's about 5 games.

I wanted more action, but I have too many killing roles, so that needs to be adjusted some I think. I WANT people to do things, and I want this to be different than wolf, but it'll take time to balance. It's only game 2 and as you said, it wasn't as bad as game one.

Even this, they're talking about a kingmaker situation, but I'm not sure I see this is a kingmaker situation. Vash controls his destiny here. The city doesn't, necessarily, and if they do it's because Vash allows it.

I will say, I wanted the solo roles powerful to compete... 2 games, two different solos, two solo wins. At least I did that right lol... or at least to plan.

 

[Jawneh]

Honestly, everyone kind of holds a little bit of the power here that can shift it basically any way possible.

Like, Vash could kill off the last corpo and have city win. Doesn't matter what corpo does as there's still one Neon lad left.

City obviously has the Neon and can choose whether corpo or Vash wins.

And corpo can choose to kill one or no Neon lads, which either ruins corpo win, or at least leaves a little bit of chance of winning.

I think Ben went over all these possibilities. I didn't read it as it was a lot and I'm already on this side and know what can happen! Whee~!

 

[dimmerwit]

I absolve myself of any and all responsibility. Unless somehow we win.

 

[a dip goblin]

Will be fun to see how this plays out now

 

[Jon]

@canadaguy is here

 

[canadaguy]

 

[a dip goblin]

Congrats on the death

 

[shortkut]

It’s not a party until 3 Erik/c’s are dead

 

[Quagmire]

 

[Jon]

Per @Mark, @Local Hero is now Regional Hero and has entered the dead thread!

 

[Mark]

Per @Mark, @Local Hero is now Regional Hero and has entered the dead thread!

It’s what happens when you “blow up” a local hero. Parts go everywhere. Now he’s regional.

 

[Local Hero]

 

[Jon]

Listen, we made it to day 4, so ask @Mark - that was my goal this whole game! I call that a resounding success!

 

[Mark]

Listen, we made it to day 4, so ask @Mark - that was my goal this whole game! I call that a resounding success!

AND nobody rage quit. Bonus.

 

[Jon]

AND nobody rage quit. Bonus.

This whole kingmaker thing that everyone apparently hates (and honestly can't be avoided sometimes no matter what we do as game masters) is worrisome, but at least no one rage quit over it!

 

[a dip goblin]

If Ben decides to vote, he's a kingmaker. If he doesn't, Vash wins. I guess that's technically still a kingmaker.

Right? If Vash isn't lynched today Kelly has no shot to win.

 

[Jon]

If Ben decides to vote, he's a kingmaker. If he doesn't, Vash wins. I guess that's technically still a kingmaker.

Right? If Vash isn't lynched today Kelly has no shot to win.

If Vash is lynched, Corpo wins.

If Kelly or Ben is lynched, Vash wins.

 

[Jon]

If Vash is lynched, Corpo wins.

If Kelly or Ben is lynched, Vash wins.

If no one is lynched, Vash wins too, since he can outkill the others.

 

[Jawneh]

I wouldn't mind a back to back win as corpo (wolf).

 

[Kat]

This whole kingmaker thing that everyone apparently hates (and honestly can't be avoided sometimes no matter what we do as game masters) is worrisome, but at least no one rage quit over it!

I'm starting to wonder if it's a strategy issue on our part, because it used to hardly ever happen, and now it seems to happen a lot.

 

[Jon]

I'm starting to wonder if it's a strategy issue on our part, because it used to hardly ever happen, and now it seems to happen a lot.

I'm just not sure it's something we can eliminate completely.

 

[Mark]

I'm just not sure it's something we can eliminate completely.

How about handicap it? If you can’t eliminate a role, then make it a double-edged sword. “It does that, but it also does this to the user…” type bullshit.

 

[Jon]

How about handicap it? If you can’t eliminate a role, then make it a double-edged sword. “It does that, but it also does this to the user…” type bullshit.

This is something I did when I modified the genetic scientist role. If they don't kill someone (or at least get the poison onto someone), then they kill a member of their own team.

The issue is I don't want to make all roles backfire to kill someone.

I think the only way to feasibly eliminate it is "if the group doesn't decide who to kill, then someone randomly dies at the end of the day phase."

RNG becomes the kingmaker then.

 

[Kat]

I'm just not sure it's something we can eliminate completely.

What I'm saying is maybe it's not on the GM to make it impossible, maybe it's on us as players to actively avoid the situation. It only happens because everyone's role is known to each other.

 

[Jawneh]

Technically it's "the best outcome" when the other alternative is that one of the sides outright loses. Or evils hand the victory to the town. You always strive to make the best for your own win condition and if going into a kingmaker is the way, then that's the way.

 

[Jon]

Technically it's "the best outcome" when the other alternative is that one of the sides outright loses. Or evils hand the victory to the town. You always strive to make the best for your own win condition and if going into a kingmaker is the way, then that's the way.

This I understand.

Like, I get that this is somewhat a kingmaker situation, but a lamb chop shouldn't be on the table, if you want to avoid this situation, you know? If you're playing to your own win condition, then taking the chop here doesn't do that. There SHOULD be a winner.

But I'm not going to intervene to force it. The players would need to.

 

[a dip goblin]

Playing to their only possible ways to win:

Kelly should try to get Vash lynched
Vash should try for any other scenario
Ben should go for no lynch and hope Vash for some reason chooses to blow Kelly up during the day tomorrow

Those are the only possible routes to victory for each player. So if everyone plays to their best possible chance for a win, then Vash should win here, because by not lynching Ben puts it on Vash to decide if Vash or Ben should win (and he'll obviously choose Vash, but it's technically a path toward victory if Vash makes a boo-boo).

 

[Jon]

Playing to their only possible ways to win:

Kelly should try to get Vash lynched
Vash should try for any other scenario
Ben should go for no lynch and hope Vash for some reason chooses to blow Kelly up during the day tomorrow

Those are the only possible routes to victory for each player. So if everyone plays to their best possible chance for a win, then Vash should win here, because by not lynching Ben puts it on Vash to decide if Vash or Ben should win (and he'll obviously choose Vash, but it's technically a path toward victory if Vash makes a boo-boo).

Yep. And to avoid either Ben or Vash having to play kingmaker, they are choosing peace.

My opinion is it's their prerogative and I'm fine with whatever outcome. I only care if people had fun. (And yes I know dying early and not getting to do your thing isn't fun, which is why I tried to make useful roles.)

 

[canadaguy]

Oh so now they are okay with making peace?


Fucking cowards

 

[shortkut]

Think lamb chop should only occur when there is no other option. The original lamb chop was a true stalemate where as this one is contrived

 

[Jon]

>>Insert MILF Mannor talk here<<

There ya go, Kelly!

 

[canadaguy]

Think lamb chop should only occur when there is no other option. The original lamb chop was a true stalemate where as this one is contrived

Yeah wasn't there avengers in play or something that meant doing anything made everyone lose?

 

[shortkut]

Yeah wasn't there avengers in play or something that meant doing anything made everyone lose?

I think so

 

[canadaguy]

Like everyone could just decide day 1 oh hey lets all be friends and like whats the point of that?

 

[a dip goblin]

I think so

Lmao you were the avenger

 

[canadaguy]

>>Insert MILF Mannor talk here<<

There ya go, Kelly!

WTF is even MILF Manor. It sounds like a porno

 

[shortkut]

Like everyone could just decide day 1 oh hey lets all be friends and like whats the point of that?

I tried to foster a peaceful environment when Vash and Christina were stuck by Cupid’s arrows, but alas

 

[shortkut]

Lmao you were the avenger

That’s how I was remembering it. I’m pretty sure I’m the one who laid out how this will be the game that never ends unless people concede to my terms

 

[Jawneh]

The next game where I'm a gunner I will do my darnest to be the first to post to shoot either #6 or #9.

You've all been warned.

No questions. Only blood.

 

[a dip goblin]

Yeah wasn't there avengers in play or something that meant doing anything made everyone lose?

I think it was two wolves, the recently revived solo, and two townies (and I think it was BH and Avenger). Wolves and the instigator couldn't hit the BH thanks to the trap, and kut was swapping his target at night and during the day to either target a wolf or the solo.

Voting out anyone during the day would have required someone voting to lose.

 

[canadaguy]

The next game where I'm a gunner I will do my darnest to be the first to post to shoot either #6 or #9.

You've all been warned.

No questions. Only blood.

How you gonna be a gunner when you are ritualist?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

WTF is even MILF Manor. It sounds like a porno

shitty reality show that people watched for the lolz

 

[shortkut]

I think it was two wolves, the recently revived solo, and two townies (and I think it was BH and Avenger). Wolves and the instigator couldn't hit the BH thanks to the trap, and kut was swapping his target at night and during the day to either target a wolf or the solo.

Voting out anyone during the day would have required someone voting to lose.

I couldn’t remember which game number it was so I didn’t go back to check

 

[Jawneh]

How you gonna be a gunner when you are ritualist?

The Conjurer can be anything and everything they desire.

Plus it gives me more messages to deliver from the dead if I send them there myself! It's a win-win for me!

 

[canadaguy]

I thought you said more massages from the dead

 

[Jawneh]

There are many options to relieve the stress from rigor mortis here in the afterlife. Personally though, I offer massages only to my best patrons.

The message service is part of the basic plan. Everyone gets that.

 

[canadaguy]

I was kind of hoping that meant using the corpses to give massages to the living