ɥʇɐǝp ɹoɟ ɹǝʌo puǝꓭ

[shortkut]

Point is: get creative!

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Point is: get creative!

Mine is AMOGUS except on a forum.

 

[Jon]

So I stupidly decided to read first... so, long post, sorry.

I'm going to assume Jon is being sarcastic.

No, I was being serious. I was surprised he was guardian wolf is all. Claiming seer usually you don't do that as a wolf role that if you're gibbed you lose use of your power. That's all though. Was NOT surprised he was a wolf lol.

TD seemed to have to click to view, too. I wonder if it's something dumb like it only works for people who could see the forum when posted... Something to investigate, but I'm not that worried now as Jon doesn't want to talk to you dead-dudes.

Fwiw, I did not have to click them either.

This whole fake Headhunter claim and claiming the target is alive is so weird.

It was the biggest red flag and why I pushed to go for Kut than Quagmire. Something felt off. Fool was a possibility either way, but Kut was playing in a way unusual for him. So I wanted NO PART in following his advice. Too many others did though.

Which is interesting since I'm pretty sure Jon even said himself it's not possible.

"There's a chance of a werewolf fan"

"Yeah but that would mean the last wolf is a sorcerer"

"I know and the last wolf is bezerker"

Yep, I was mentally exhausted yesterday from real life shit, so I kept saying "remember there could be a fan, which explains Christina" while simultaneously forgetting there was only one wolf left and no sorcerer. Sorry... COMPLETE exhaustion recently.

Even then, the arsonist can’t burn for three more nights. They just vote out the wolf and it’s over. If the Arso doesn’t play ball, whoever is left (warden or conjuror) can more or less stall indefinitely.

This is why I told Alu I didn't think his numbers added up. I was just too tired to actually compile the numbers to help him see that.

Why do they believe Jawneh so solidly? I mean he's telling the truth about his role but they don't know that. He just claims priest and then Alu gives him a convenient Out from proving it. Alu also hasn't been able to jail anyone yet.

Ftr, I didn't believe anyone. And pointed out why I had some sus on all of them lol.

why did they lynch Quagmire?

why did Jawneh not splash Benzine?

I don't understand this town

This is the thing that hung me up the most... I wanted Jawneh to prove himself. I wanted him to splash Benzine. If I had known Christina was Flagger, I would have made a bigger deal out of it because then I would know between bodyguard, Tough Guy and Warden (and Flagger) we couldn't lose.

Had he splashed Benzine like I wanted, and lynch Kut like I wanted, the game would have ended earlier. I just shut down at the end of the day from everything going on and it worked out in the end, so I'm happy for the town.

I think Jon should get some sort of badge for using multiple powers correctly as a Conjuror.

Like a Shang Tsung or Mystique or some such.

Wait, you're ADVOCATING for giving me a badge? When did I enter the twilight zone?!

 

[Jon]

Conjuror is a very fun role.

Also, town is 1-0 when Jon has a strong role.

Also, also, I like Ben's RNG the best.

 

[Jon]

View attachment 23998

I would wear this with pride.

 

[Christina]

Here's my bit of logic. Protected CG even though he didn't trust me because he was the next close to verified as town next to Vash. Was hinting violinist seer. Tommy was saying he was protecting Vash and if he didn't would be the first to die the next day for being no good. If there was a Berserker I was going to hit Vash and take down whoever was protecting him. If there was no berserk, wolf assume Vash is protect and go after second most trusted townie who is also a seer. Should have stuck with my gut that Alu was town and flagged it at Zell, but logiced my way out of that that there was no way Zell did the thing he says to always do.

I wasn't about to tell my roll ever since CG confirmed me. I was the backup for if we didn't jail the last wolf and if the wolf knew what I was I wouldn't know who they would pick.

I was more sure shortkut was the last wolf and Benzine or Jawneh was the Arsonist. I could make argument either way and knew in the end it didn't matter. I was hoping I would flag the last wolf for coolness points but oh well.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

For anyone wondering about my plan for the order of operations:

I was almost certain it was a HH, since two people independently claimed that, with the second person doing so without seeing the first. I assumed it was going to be Quagmire as the HH, but that if he were lying and was actually wolf or SK, that Kut was way more likely to be a fool than a headhunter. I also didn't believe fully that Quagmire's target was dead and that he was officially on the side of the town if he were a headhunter. If you're going to claim HH why would you say your target is still alive?

We had the numbers to get everyone killed without having a splash happen, and I wasn't certain Jawneh would pick right, so why risk it? I also didn't fully believe Jawneh and my order of operations included killing him if necessary. If Quagmire's target were still alive, why would he play on the side of the town? And yes, I could guarantee locking up the wolf and not having a night kill from the wolf, but it would also guarantee not killing off one of the evils. If we were in a situation with 3 town that had no day kill shots left vs. a Headhunter not on the town's side, a wolf, and an arsonist, why would any of those three vote for an evil and to be on the path to lose when they could just stall a single night and have the wolf kill someone to have the numbers advantage over the town?


There was a 100% path to victory without a splash, and too many unknowns with an incorrect splash to go down that route. That was my thinking. None of us knew for sure who the last wolf was, and the posts in this thread read as though it should have obviously been Benzine the whole time. Not sure "just end it faster!" is a better plan than "take the guaranteed easier path to victory without needing to plan to stall it indefinitely" there.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

Also in 3 day Jon successfully borrowed and excellently used 3 different powers. That's an OP game.

 

[shortkut]

I only claimed my target was still alive because I forgot dimmerwit was lynched

 

[Jon]

Also in 3 day Jon successfully borrowed and excellently used 3 different powers. That's an OP game.

Technically I used one power per day: detective night 2 after taking it late day 1; gunner during day 2. My third switch was day 3 for the priest.

I earned 3 badges for this though.... so I'm quite happy we won.

 

[canadaguy]

For anyone wondering about my plan for the order of operations:

I was almost certain it was a HH, since two people independently claimed that, with the second person doing so without seeing the first. I assumed it was going to be Quagmire as the HH, but that if he were lying and was actually wolf or SK, that Kut was way more likely to be a fool than a headhunter. I also didn't believe fully that Quagmire's target was dead and that he was officially on the side of the town if he were a headhunter. If you're going to claim HH why would you say your target is still alive?

We had the numbers to get everyone killed without having a splash happen, and I wasn't certain Jawneh would pick right, so why risk it? I also didn't fully believe Jawneh and my order of operations included killing him if necessary. If Quagmire's target were still alive, why would he play on the side of the town? And yes, I could guarantee locking up the wolf and not having a night kill from the wolf, but it would also guarantee not killing off one of the evils. If we were in a situation with 3 town that had no day kill shots left vs. a Headhunter not on the town's side, a wolf, and an arsonist, why would any of those three vote for an evil and to be on the path to lose when they could just stall a single night and have the wolf kill someone to have the numbers advantage over the town?


There was a 100% path to victory without a splash, and too many unknowns with an incorrect splash to go down that route. That was my thinking. None of us knew for sure who the last wolf was, and the posts in this thread read as though it should have obviously been Benzine the whole time. Not sure "just end it faster!" is a better plan than "take the guaranteed easier path to victory without needing to plan to stall it indefinitely" there.

I will admit, it is easier to know the optimal play knowing all the roles.

 

[Jon]

Also... is this what it feels like for those of you that get strong roles? Interesting.

I'd imagine solo is somewhat similar, but I've only been fool once, and somehow I just lived.

 

[canadaguy]

Also... is this what it feels like for those of you that get strong roles? Interesting.

I'd imagine solo is somewhat similar, but I've only been fool once, and somehow I just lived.

Every time I get a strong role, I get dead bodied the first night and have to switch to some weak ass bullshit

 

[Jon]

Every time I get a strong role, I get dead bodied the first night and have to switch to some weak ass bullshit

We did get lucky that the wolves didn't have a seer to get a strong role.

 

[TD]

"Strong" roles always intrigued me as there's some incredibly poweful roles in "Regular" villagers.

For example, Detective and Bully feel kind of misplaced compared to the power of the other Strong roles.

Then Regular has things like Beast Hunter, Marksman, Witch - just off the top of my head.

 

[Local Hero]

I've never been a Medium

 

[shortkut]

I've never been a Medium

I’ve never been Jawneh

 

[Jon]

I’ve never been Jawneh

Probably a good thing. We can barely handle the one we have.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

"Strong" roles always intrigued me as there's some incredibly poweful roles in "Regular" villagers.

For example, Detective and Bully feel kind of misplaced compared to the power of the other Strong roles.

Then Regular has things like Beast Hunter, Marksman, Witch - just off the top of my head.

Witch seems pretty strong for sure.

I honestly don't remember if I've had a strong role before though. I don't think I've ever been the jailer role at the very least.

 

[TD]

I honestly don't remember if I've had a strong role before though.

Same here. I've been Spirit Seer, Tough Guy, Preacher, and Avenger (if we count Kat's recent game).

 

[shortkut]

Bully should be a solo role

 

[A PineSol Scent]

Also I'm glad I both missed being able to update my jailing in time as well as Jon vouching for me in the day like that. Would not have ended so well had I seen the lynch. I would have switched to Zell, even before the reveal, and then dropped the weapon if dimmerwit was town, kept it if not.

Though...if Vash killed Zell he would have been released and not in my protection anymore? So would I have survived the berserk in that instance?

 

[Jon]

Also I'm glad I both missed being able to update my jailing in time as well as Jon vouching for me in the day like that. Would not have ended so well had I seen the lynch. I would have switched to Zell, even before the reveal, and then dropped the weapon if dimmerwit was town, kept it if not.

Though...if Vash killed Zell he would have been released and not in my protection anymore? So would I have survived the berserk in that instance?

It's funny. I had my doubts about you UNTIL Zell pointed out what you were alluding to being. The second he did and that no one else had remotely claimed strong role until Jawneh (and I KNEW he wasn't ritualist), my suspicions were on him.

But because of my gimmick I didn't say anything (I did say it to Ben). And I knew I was going to out Zell day two. My only concern with you was I was sus of possible Cupid the way you were pushing Kut over Quagmire.

 

[Jawneh]

I’ve never been Jawneh

A blessing in disguised for sure. Some days even I frighten myself.

"Strong" roles always intrigued me as there's some incredibly poweful roles in "Regular" villagers.

For example, Detective and Bully feel kind of misplaced compared to the power of the other Strong roles.

Then Regular has things like Beast Hunter, Marksman, Witch - just off the top of my head.

Detective is for sure a very powerful role. By the time you can figure out someone who is guaranteed town or evil or anything, you can then always compare to that one. And if you don't want to just find a person, checking two is always good too. Compare that to spirit seer. They work very similarly, but you don't have to worry about any kills with the detective. Plus you can find both of the solos too.

Bully though, oh boy. Yes, it's not a very fast killer, but the utility from rocks is amazing. You essentially have 4 nightmare wolf charges and if you double up you do a murder. If the bully lives a little bit longer until you have less targets to throw at, it's even better.

Witch is definitely one of the best if not the best regular ones for sure. The only "downside" is that each potion is one time use. Still though, being able to pass the protection around until it's used is nice still. For sure deceptively strong.

Speaking of which, we haven't had a lot of witches lately.

 

[Jawneh]

The second he did and that no one else had remotely claimed strong role until Jawneh (and I KNEW he wasn't ritualist), my suspicions were on him.

Amusingly, the second you posted saying you know I'm not, I knew you were a conjuror. Though from what Ben had said about your plans it was a fairly safe thing to say in the end, but you did telegraph it quite obviously lol.

Also heck you. I AM the ritualist.

 

[Jon]

@Zell 17 - I meant to ask... Can a detective check against someone who is dead?

 

[Jon]

Amusingly, the second you posted saying you know I'm not, I knew you were a conjuror. Though from what Ben had said about your plans it was a fairly safe thing to say in the end, but you did telegraph it quite obviously lol.

Also heck you. I AM the ritualist.

Honestly, I never fully suspected you of being a baddie, but it was hard to see Benzine as bad because he was unable to play mostly. Which is why I wanted you to splash him. For me, I had already settled on Kut and Quagmire as the solos. Which is why I didn't understand why Alu was so paranoid. Because to me, I KNEW you or Benzine were the wolf and for me it was a "prove it or you're the wolf" and I knew my next target.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

Honestly, I never fully suspected you of being a baddie, but it was hard to see Benzine as bad because he was unable to play mostly. Which is why I wanted you to splash him. For me, I had already settled on Kut and Quagmire as the solos. Which is why I didn't understand why Alu was so paranoid. Because to me, I KNEW you or Benzine were the wolf and for me it was a "prove it or you're the wolf" and I knew my next target.

Claiming HH to me is a good way to try to get pressure off yourself from any other non town role. I never fully trusted that Kut and Quagmire were both solos, which is why I didn't believe Jawneh would be 100% successful.

I was just trying to say it didn't matter if he proved it or not because the path to victory was there regardless.

 

[Jawneh]

Honestly, I never fully suspected you of being a baddie, but it was hard to see Benzine as bad because he was unable to play mostly. Which is why I wanted you to splash him. For me, I had already settled on Kut and Quagmire as the solos. Which is why I didn't understand why Alu was so paranoid. Because to me, I KNEW you or Benzine were the wolf and for me it was a "prove it or you're the wolf" and I knew my next target.

The only thing for me was that I wasn't 100% on Benzine being the wolf. Could've been Quagmire or kut too. I just had very strong feels that between Quag and kut was the arsonist and some flavor of solo voter, but again, I didn't know. Maybe if I stepped back and thought of the idea of two HH's popping in to claim they're the real one I could've dispelled fears about cupid and fool. At that point, I wouldn't have had fears of cupid shenanigans if I die.

Which is the same thing Alu had, but he didn't know if I was full of it or not. The numbers with my knowledge were better than his. So the two of us just thought of a way to solve everything a little bit slower while also minimizing shenanigans.

Maybe that's something we all should learn. If we got a pile of townies who don't quite trust each other, if one of them makes a plan that fairly obviously is good for the town, and also aligns enough with your plans/ideas, just go for it. Like in the end, I was okay with Alu's idea, since I knew I couldn't change his mind without splashing. The end result was the same, even if it meant I couldn't shoot Benzine in jail.

 

[VashTheStampede]

If anyone is curious about my plans if I hadn't died when I did:

I was gonna fuckin shoot someone

 

[TD]

Detective is for sure a very powerful role. By the time you can figure out someone who is guaranteed town or evil or anything, you can then always compare to that one. And if you don't want to just find a person, checking two is always good too. Compare that to spirit seer. They work very similarly, but you don't have to worry about any kills with the detective. Plus you can find both of the solos too.

I don't see what makes Detective better than Spirit Seer and I actually think it's worse than SS.

Mainly because it's easier to fool. If you get a red read as Spirit Seer, you've found someone that did a murder, period. It's only objective weakness is not finding unresigned Blind Wolves or Wolf Seers, some solo killers, and the solo voter. But if you get a red read, it's legit.

Detective on the other hand can be fooled by things like Shaman, Trickster, Illusionist, and Instigator. Sure, you can find solos as a result, but you also don't know if it's one of the solos, a wolf, or if you've been got a bad read.

For something that draws from the pool of others in the Strong pile, it feels like the weakest.

Bully though, oh boy. Yes, it's not a very fast killer, but the utility from rocks is amazing. You essentially have 4 nightmare wolf charges and if you double up you do a murder. If the bully lives a little bit longer until you have less targets to throw at, it's even better.

I look at Bully like a budget Gunner. It takes two days to kill, if your first target dies by other means, you get a max of one kill. Your role gets revealed on kill like Gunner, so you have to then be able to hide to get two more rocks off, plus the idea of needing to live four day phases to get the most use out of your role is unfathomable to me.

In a game where the Strong always get picked off early it seems, Bully just feels like a sitting duck and too slow.

Just my opinion of course, but compared to Gunner, Jailer/Warden, and the speak-to-dead trio: these other two have major weaknesses.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

I don't see what makes Detective better than Spirit Seer and I actually think it's worse than SS.

Mainly because it's easier to fool. If you get a red read as Spirit Seer, you've found someone that did a murder, period. It's only objective weakness is not finding unresigned Blind Wolves or Wolf Seers, some solo killers, and the solo voter. But if you get a red read, it's legit.

Detective on the other hand can be fooled by things like Shaman, Trickster, Illusionist, and Instigator. Sure, you can find solos as a result, but you also don't know if it's one of the solos, a wolf, or if you've been got a bad read.

For something that draws from the pool of others in the Strong pile, it feels like the weakest.

I look at Bully like a budget Gunner. It takes two days to kill, if your first target dies by other means, you get a max of one kill. Your role gets revealed on kill like Gunner, so you have to then be able to hide to get two more rocks off, plus the idea of needing to live four day phases to get the most use out of your role is unfathomable to me.

In a game where the Strong always get picked off early it seems, Bully just feels like a sitting duck and too slow.

Just my opinion of course, but compared to Gunner, Jailer/Warden, and the speak-to-dead trio: these other two have major weaknesses.

I'd say the detective is the weakest of the strong roles to be sure.

Bully I'm somewhat fine with. It has the ability to kill twice, but very slowly, but it also has the secondary ability to prevent someone from using their power on that day/night. It would also be useful in the case of a shadow wolf, since it would prevent a wolf from voting (so if one was identified and would otherwise be lynched, can negate 2 wolf votes and potentially keep said wolf on the chopping block).

I'd rate it above detective and below the rest.

Conjuror is one hell of a role though. Might be my new favorite if the cards can be played right.

 

[Zell 17]

@Zell 17 - I meant to ask... Can a detective check against someone who is dead?

No

 

[Zell 17]

I don't see what makes Detective better than Spirit Seer and I actually think it's worse than SS.

Mainly because it's easier to fool. If you get a red read as Spirit Seer, you've found someone that did a murder, period. It's only objective weakness is not finding unresigned Blind Wolves or Wolf Seers, some solo killers, and the solo voter. But if you get a red read, it's legit.

Detective on the other hand can be fooled by things like Shaman, Trickster, Illusionist, and Instigator. Sure, you can find solos as a result, but you also don't know if it's one of the solos, a wolf, or if you've been got a bad read.

For something that draws from the pool of others in the Strong pile, it feels like the weakest.

I look at Bully like a budget Gunner. It takes two days to kill, if your first target dies by other means, you get a max of one kill. Your role gets revealed on kill like Gunner, so you have to then be able to hide to get two more rocks off, plus the idea of needing to live four day phases to get the most use out of your role is unfathomable to me.

In a game where the Strong always get picked off early it seems, Bully just feels like a sitting duck and too slow.

Just my opinion of course, but compared to Gunner, Jailer/Warden, and the speak-to-dead trio: these other two have major weaknesses.

Definitely Detective is the weakest. But the strength is in equal reads: you can simultaneously confirm two villagers or two evils in one night.

Using the detective to compare a person against a “known” person significantly weakens it

 

[A PineSol Scent]

Definitely Detective is the weakest. But the strength is in equal reads: you can simultaneously confirm two villagers or two evils in one night.

Using the detective to compare a person against a “known” person significantly weakens it

Question:

If I locked you and Vash up and gave him the weapon and he killed you, would I have been safe from the berserk because he would have been out of my protection by the time the wolf attack came?


Because that would have been what happened had I logged in early enough to make my changes.

 

[dimmerwit]

Because that would have been what happened had I logged in early enough to make my changes.

For the record I actually only needed 6 to lynch, not 8. I decided to keep quiet about it, which nearly backfired!

 

[A PineSol Scent]

For the record I actually only needed 6 to lynch, not 8. I decided to keep quiet about it, which nearly backfired!

I meant in terms of my wardening (because it failed since you were still selected) - you were still gonna be lynched.

Once seeing that you were a goner, I was going to plan to switch to Vash and Zell, and see how your results came back. If you came back town, I'd give Vash the weapon. If you came back anything other than that, I would have kept the weapon where it was.

So in that instance, hopefully @VashTheStampede would have understood I was town and arming him to take out my accuser. Just trying to see if things had played out as expected if I would have been caught up in the berserk and killed off as well.


It's good to know for the future, to be honest. Not sure if this exact situation will arise again, but outed gunners are always on your side (minus cupid and such) and if you have a presumed baddie in there you can still arm them to take out the baddie and not be worried about a berserk.

 

[dimmerwit]

I mean in terms of the fact that you might have changed earlier had it been known that I was close to being lynched. I think I was on 5 overnight?

Your strategy was sound though. And the question is pretty good too: I'd assume yes.

 

[A PineSol Scent]

I mean in terms of the fact that you might have changed earlier had it been known that I was close to being lynched. I think I was on 5 overnight?

Your strategy was sound though. And the question is pretty good too: I'd assume yes.

I think you were on like 3 when I went to bed lol. Then when Iogged in finally after finding the breakfast place you were lynched. Quite the turnaround!

Also I guess if you weren't lynched, vash likely could have imploded himself, and if I remember correctly, their backup was CG with flagger protection. So would that have taken out CG and Christina as opposed to me? I guess the only situation I would have died would have been had Vash decided to not use the weapon, whether that be against you or Zell.

 

[Zell 17]

Question:

If I locked you and Vash up and gave him the weapon and he killed you, would I have been safe from the berserk because he would have been out of my protection by the time the wolf attack came?


Because that would have been what happened had I logged in early enough to make my changes.

Yes

 

[A PineSol Scent]

Yes

Man that would have been fun.

Less so for epic Jon moments though. He would have needed a new target. Which I guess could have come later after the fire was burned.