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Multi Grand Theft Auto VI

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dimmerwit

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Mark said:
season 20 20x1 GIF by South Park


In terms of variety, yeah, you're not wrong, but, I just think that there should have been more for the wait. For example, I saw this the other day...

View attachment 30864

Big difference, sure, but, is it necessary? Or could that effort been applied elsewhere in the game? Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate the attention to detail and the visual improvements over time, but, I'd rather see the effort elsewhere. If I had to choose between a rat that has fur with visible strands and visually discernible rings on the tail or another weapon or vehicle, I'll take the latter. Same goes for open, empty roads... Give us a few more building interiors instead of creating a highway to nowhere important.
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That's not necessarily the choice though. The people making models and textures aren't necessarily the same people who implement guns, or indeed other features. I actually don't think the shots look that much different - the texture detail is quite similar but is washed out by the lighting in the lower shot. The model is better but since models are often done at higher detail and culled down to run on actual hardware I'm not sure there's much difference there either.

Visual progress is not always labour intensive anyway. The reason an increasing number of AAA games are switching to mandatory ray tracing is because it's much easier to implement for the developers. GTA VI has RTGI and I'm not convinced there'll be a fallback.

As for interiors, I agree I'd like more, but I'll say that I'd hate for them to lose scale. The map doesn't need to be massive but I'd like it to be bigger than V, which it is. I do think it's needed to represent different areas authentically.

Smacktard said:
I genuinely think this is nostalgia goggles. I played IV and V for the first time this year, back-to-back. The differences were like night and day, but in V's favor. Most people generally agree that IV has a better story (I'm not among them), but V objectively has much more variety and depth in content and complexity.
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I think it's also the 5 and a half year gap between them. That said, I've always preferred V in pretty much every way.
 
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The Eye in the Sky! said:
I'm curious to see the inevitable graphics downgrade that every GAMER throws a fit about after these curated, polished trailers give way to actual gameplay footage. I hope VI looks incredible like the trailer, but I don't full expect it.
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They are curated yes, but Rockstar has always been pretty honest about their graphics and there's clear flaws in the screenshots that make sense for the limitations of the PS5 and Series X. I think they are best-case shots with favourable lighting, and in particular they've seemed to add lighting to highlight character faces, but I don't expect a real downgrade or anything.
 
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dimmerwit said:
They are curated yes, but Rockstar has always been pretty honest about their graphics and there's clear flaws in the screenshots that make sense for the limitations of the PS5 and Series X. I think they are best-case shots with favourable lighting, and in particular they've seemed to add lighting to highlight character faces, but I don't expect a real downgrade or anything.
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I'd sooner use the phrasing "controlled environment" for the trailers... They know the optimal hardware to use based on what they used to create the game. Let's see them grab 10 different televisions, a few first run consoles with some shitty HDMI cables for some and fancy gold-plated ones for the others and see what we end up with.
 
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Mark said:
I'd sooner use the phrasing "controlled environment" for the trailers... They know the optimal hardware to use based on what they used to create the game. Let's see them grab 10 different televisions, a few first run consoles with some shitty HDMI cables for some and fancy gold-plated ones for the others and see what we end up with.
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Controlled environment is certainly the phrase.

Not sure how the rest matters though. The age of the console doesn't matter and gold-plated HDMI cables are a marketing scam. Yes the game will look better on a hot new 4K OLED than a 2010 LCD, but so would the trailer. The game will actually benefit as it has none of YouTube's horrible compression and better HDR support.
 
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Ben said:
View attachment 30951

@Mark playing GTA.
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I've told this story elsewhere here, but, my ex bought me GTAV. I didn't get to play it the day it launched because I was sleeping through the day after working through the night doing repo. I ended up getting ridiculously stoned waiting for the install to finish on my next day off, and the very first goddamn mission was... what? Franklin and Lamar doing the most inaccurate goddamn repo I had ever seen. I got to work on my day off that day. I couldn't escape it.

Smacktard said:
Lol I didn't know you could do that. That's an impressive amount of attention to details
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There's a whole mission sequence with Franklin and his crackhead neighbor Tonya where you've gotta fill in for her boyfriend impounding cars using that truck. I'm surprised you didn't encounter her during your playthrough.
 
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dimmerwit said:
TBF most people do that mission and forget that repo even exists in the game.
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Well, here's the thing... They're two different gigs. The only people that do impound in the real world are the ones that couldn't cut it doing repo. I'm kinda disappointed that Rockstar didn't make the distinction with the amount of detail they put into their games.
 
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Mark said:
Well, here's the thing... They're two different gigs. The only people that do impound in the real world are the ones that couldn't cut it doing repo. I'm kinda disappointed that Rockstar didn't make the distinction with the amount of detail they put into their games.
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Or maybe Tonya's BF was just a repo-impound man?

Think About It GIF by Identity


(that sounds like the world's shittest superhero)

I presume impounding comes with less gunfire?
 
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Mark said:
There's a whole mission sequence with Franklin and his crackhead neighbor Tonya where you've gotta fill in for her boyfriend impounding cars using that truck. I'm surprised you didn't encounter her during your playthrough.
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I meant the part about NPCs chasing after their car. I don't recall THAT happening in the missions, but if it did, I would've just assumed it to be scripted rather than a mechanic.
 
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dimmerwit said:
Or maybe Tonya's BF was just a repo-impound man?

Think About It GIF by Identity


(that sounds like the world's shittest superhero)

I presume impounding comes with less gunfire?
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Impound is usually done during the day in most instances, and when it is done overnight, it's still bound by the same municipal/county/state laws as it is during the day. For example, those "no parking/vehicle will be towed at owner's expense" signs you've probably seen during your trips to the states? That's impound, enforced by police, parking enforcement, or property management. Legally, the signs have to be clearly posted at the entrances to a parking lot or garage and again every X amount of feet within the parking area. Generally, if your vehicle gets impounded, it's because you didn't pay a parking meter, your vehicle doesn't have a permit sticker for that particular lot/garage, or your permission expired.

Repo on the other hand... That's between your financer and the recovery agency, and it happens after you've entered delinquency on your loan. Generally speaking, every one that I went after knew their vehicle was up for repossession and actively went through the motions of ignoring communication with the bank. Repo agents only get sent out when you've actively dodged making payments with no attempt to communicate arrangements with the bank. It's a VERY costly process up front for the banks, oftentimes exceeding the amount delinquent on the loan, which means it's typically the last resort to recover the amount owed.

So, the gist of it is... I went after people willfully dodging paying their car payments, not people parking where they shouldn't like asshats.
 
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Fool's Requiem said:
Doing repos as night seems dangerous.

Random question: You ever end up doing repo for those scum "Buy here pay here" dealerships?
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I've worked day and night. Some accounts necessitate it, like if you live in an apartment complex that has a garage and work during the day at an office complex with lot parking for example. During the day, people are a lot more conscious and irritable. At night, the element of surprise is your best friend. Sure, there's the whole "driving down someone's 1/2 mile driveway at 3am" thing, but, you authorize repo agents to access your vehicle from the driveway in the fine print of your loan. If you pull a firearm and start shooting claiming I'm trespassing, that isn't going to fly in court.

I have worked for the BHPH places, the last agency I had an exclusivity contract with was one that not only did BHPH, but they specialized in doing so for luxury vehicles... that were outfitted with hardwired (non battery-op) GPS trackers. It was honestly cleaner and more cut-and-dry than some of the institutions, like your Toyota Financial Services or Capital One. The big banks are ruthless, the BHPH places you at least know what you're getting into from the jump. They make no secret about what'll happen if you don't pay. The problem with BHPH, though, is that it's the prime choice (other than straw purchases) for the uh... less than legitimate types of income, which opens you up to dealing with dealers and other types of upstanding citizens. It's a trade-off, really. Do you wanna get shot at by the surprised, half-lit working class guy when he's awoken to your truck in his driveway hooking to his car at 3am? Or, do you want to take a stroll into the ghetto at 3am to pop a car owned by a dude that may or may not give a shit if he puts a few rounds in you for "stealing his car"?
 
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MC74 said:
So, it looks like Rockstar will be requiring players to send them a photo of their ID in order to play their games. Fuck that bullshit.

Click to expand...


Well... This is what happens when parents don't parent and want the developers to do it for them. I'm actually surprised that we didn't see this sooner, considering games like GTA have been the scapegoats for shithead kids acting like shitheads for decades now. I blame every single parent who let their young ass kid play mature games. I'm not talking about teenagers, either. I know so many people who let their kids play whatever game they wanted, because their friends were allowed to play it, and then cried the blues later about the kid picking up foul language or behaving some kind of way.

I'm very much anti-censorship, but, I draw the line at exposing kids to content they can't comprehend because of their age or maturity. I played GTAIII when it first came out, but, just because I was mature enough to understand that I can't beat up hookers and use an RPG to take out a cop car doesn't mean little 6 year old Timmy can comprehend it.
 
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Mark said:
Well... This is what happens when parents don't parent and want the developers to do it for them. I'm actually surprised that we didn't see this sooner, considering games like GTA have been the scapegoats for shithead kids acting like shitheads for decades now. I blame every single parent who let their young ass kid play mature games. I'm not talking about teenagers, either. I know so many people who let their kids play whatever game they wanted, because their friends were allowed to play it, and then cried the blues later about the kid picking up foul language or behaving some kind of way.

I'm very much anti-censorship, but, I draw the line at exposing kids to content they can't comprehend because of their age or maturity. I played GTAIII when it first came out, but, just because I was mature enough to understand that I can't beat up hookers and use an RPG to take out a cop car doesn't mean little 6 year old Timmy can comprehend it.
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Sad part is, everyone is forced to suffer for it, all because of the parents who didn't do what parents should.
 
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MC74 said:
Sad part is, everyone is forced to suffer for it, all because of the parents who didn't do what parents should.
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Exactly. Such is life, though. "One bad apple spoils the bunch" isn't a saying for the fuck of it. I personally think it's a bullshit law, but, the UK has a lot of silly laws. However, I can't judge, because look at the place I'm from.
 
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Rockstar needs to keep using its engine for more than just two games. Make it so they don't have to spend billions on a new game... Or do something like Valve did with Source where you can make incremental improvements without rebuilding an engine from scratch. That first Source engine had surprisingly long legs.
 
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Fool's Requiem said:
Rockstar needs to keep using its engine for more than just two games. Make it so they don't have to spend billions on a new game... Or do something like Valve did with Source where you can make incremental improvements without rebuilding an engine from scratch. That first Source engine had surprisingly long legs.
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They gradually improve upon their engine with the staggered releases of GTA/RDR in "recent" years, but, I think their main issue is that they keep building more and more into each game pushing the capabilities of each component. I'm no technical expert, but, from what I've learned it seems as if it's a modular engine that allows them the ability to swap out different sections over time. That's all well and cool, but, when you're building each section to monolithic proportions, it's still going to create a bottleneck during production if even one part has to be swapped out and a new one married in its place.
 
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Fool's Requiem said:
Rockstar needs to keep using its engine for more than just two games. Make it so they don't have to spend billions on a new game... Or do something like Valve did with Source where you can make incremental improvements without rebuilding an engine from scratch. That first Source engine had surprisingly long legs.
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They are? They've been using RAGE since GTA IV.

Edit: Actually it was that Table Tennis game that was first.
 
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Mark said:
They gradually improve upon their engine with the staggered releases of GTA/RDR in "recent" years, but, I think their main issue is that they keep building more and more into each game pushing the capabilities of each component. I'm no technical expert, but, from what I've learned it seems as if it's a modular engine that allows them the ability to swap out different sections over time. That's all well and cool, but, when you're building each section to monolithic proportions, it's still going to create a bottleneck during production if even one part has to be swapped out and a new one married in its place.
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Pretty much every engine is like that. Adding a full suite of RT features is an example, although they pushed some of that work to the latest gen releases of GTA V. Whether it slows development depends I think on the nature of their production process, since the team working on the engine will be different to those working on the game albeit governed by the requirements of said game.

Still, if it means that they don't use the stuttering shitfest that is Unreal Engine 5 then it's worth it. The trailer looks incredible for base PS5 hardware, unlike some UE5 games with similar features that run like shit and with a low resolution which the PS5 doesn't have the upscalers (unlike PC) to make look good on a TV. Even if it's 30FPS the amount of RT stuff they are doing on a console with very modest RT capabilities is pretty nuts.

I still think the primary reason for the extreme gap is the fact that they used the main GTA team to make Red Dead Redemption 2 rather than using a different team like the first game. If GTA VI makes it for May then it would have been 6 1/2 years since the team's last major release which is not far off the 5 1/2 between IV and V.
 
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dimmerwit said:
Pretty much every engine is like that. Adding a full suite of RT features is an example, although they pushed some of that work to the latest gen releases of GTA V. Whether it slows development depends I think on the nature of their production process, since the team working on the engine will be different to those working on the game albeit governed by the requirements of said game.
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I'm still learning about all of that stuff. The best example I was given was the wildlife in RDR2 being used as the basis for the wildlife in GTAVI compared to the wildlife in GTAVI, that's how this simple mind processes information.

dimmerwit said:
Still, if it means that they don't use the stuttering shitfest that is Unreal Engine 5 then it's worth it. The trailer looks incredible for base PS5 hardware, unlike some UE5 games with similar features that run like shit and with a low resolution which the PS5 doesn't have the upscalers (unlike PC) to make look good on a TV. Even if it's 30FPS the amount of RT stuff they are doing on a console with very modest RT capabilities is pretty nuts.
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I DO know enough to know to watch out for games with that Unreal splash at the beginning, though. I've seen some shitty examples of UE5 after seeing that one video when it first came out of nearly photorealistic graphics.

dimmerwit said:
I still think the primary reason for the extreme gap is the fact that they used the main GTA team to make Red Dead Redemption 2 rather than using a different team like the first game. If GTA VI makes it for May then it would have been 6 1/2 years since the team's last major release which is not far off the 5 1/2 between IV and V.
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I thought that VI was an "all hands on deck" title utilizing all of their outfits across the world, though?
 
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Mark said:
I'm still learning about all of that stuff. The best example I was given was the wildlife in RDR2 being used as the basis for the wildlife in GTAVI compared to the wildlife in GTAVI, that's how this simple mind processes information.
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One other example is that there's still some Quake code left in the Source 2 engine. I know Valve designed Source to be very modular which is why stuff like Half Life Alyx can do some impressive stuff, but there's some residual code somewhere.

Mark said:
I DO know enough to know to watch out for games with that Unreal splash at the beginning, though. I've seen some shitty examples of UE5 after seeing that one video when it first came out of nearly photorealistic graphics.
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Epic's CEO made a stir recently by saying that it was mostly the fault of devs. It's hard to judge how accurate that is given that he's not an unbiased source, but given how well Fortnite runs with some deceptively advanced graphical features he could be right. He also said that devs should target low end systems and work up rather than the other way round. Ultimately I think a lot of it is devs and publishers strapped for cash and releasing in a "good enough" state.

Mark said:
I thought that VI was an "all hands on deck" title utilizing all of their outfits across the world, though?
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Yes, but I think the point is that it's come at the expense of everything else. Rockstar doesn't make anything themselves outside of GTA and RDR. They probably could have kept some kind of second team if they wanted to make a RDR and GTA simultaneously, though with the numbers they'd need perhaps that's not possible. But they used to make a fair bit of stuff such as Bully, Midnight Club, Max Payne 3 and a lot of help on Team Bondi's LA Noire.
 
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dimmerwit said:
One other example is that there's still some Quake code left in the Source 2 engine. I know Valve designed Source to be very modular which is why stuff like Half Life Alyx can do some impressive stuff, but there's some residual code somewhere.
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How much of it could also be unique assets? I saw video a while back about how one game used one render of a rock, scaled and rotated it, and used it all across the game for every instance requiring a pebble, rock, boulder, etc. Rockstar on the other hand.. the attention to detail they display, it leads me to think they'd have a bunch of different assets.

dimmerwit said:
Epic's CEO made a stir recently by saying that it was mostly the fault of devs. It's hard to judge how accurate that is given that he's not an unbiased source, but given how well Fortnite runs with some deceptively advanced graphical features he could be right. He also said that devs should target low end systems and work up rather than the other way round. Ultimately I think a lot of it is devs and publishers strapped for cash and releasing in a "good enough" state.
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If that's the case, why aren't they promoting educational programs for developers? They have them for every other programming language used in game development, it would only make sense for Unreal and the other multipurpose engines. In any other field, you make sure your customers know how to use the tool you're selling them.

dimmerwit said:
Yes, but I think the point is that it's come at the expense of everything else. Rockstar doesn't make anything themselves outside of GTA and RDR. They probably could have kept some kind of second team if they wanted to make a RDR and GTA simultaneously, though with the numbers they'd need perhaps that's not possible. But they used to make a fair bit of stuff such as Bully, Midnight Club, Max Payne 3 and a lot of help on Team Bondi's LA Noire.
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With the amount of money invested in those titles, it does kinda make sense when you're looking at it from a security angle. Leaks can make or break a game's release, and I'm sure they don't want just any third party contractor with the secret recipe.
 
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Mark said:
How much of it could also be unique assets? I saw video a while back about how one game used one render of a rock, scaled and rotated it, and used it all across the game for every instance requiring a pebble, rock, boulder, etc. Rockstar on the other hand.. the attention to detail they display, it leads me to think they'd have a bunch of different assets.
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Probably, given the detail of their worlds, but there was a Linkedin profile of one of their engine programmers which mentioned work on procedural generation. I think it's become an increasingly important part of most modern engines so we might see less of that old stuff needed.

Mark said:
If that's the case, why aren't they promoting educational programs for developers? They have them for every other programming language used in game development, it would only make sense for Unreal and the other multipurpose engines. In any other field, you make sure your customers know how to use the tool you're selling them.
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They did announce better support in that same event but I think you might well just end up with the same "release in a good enough state" in many cases, particularly games that don't have the same close relationship as say the Witcher 4.
 
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