The Netherealm

[Mark]

We need an ai that reads through the game threads and then creates a short story of the events. Or even more distopian creates a short movie

I wonder how far off we are from providing a link to a bot and having the entire thread summarized.

 

[Zell 17]

So, here's where Raine not claiming Detective hurts. If she had a strong claim, the game would be over right now.

She sells Jon today. Jon voted = doesn't die as Alpha, 11 left.

Wolves kill. 10 left.

She sells Dean. Dean or Jon voted = 9 left.

Wolves kill. 8 left.

She confirms TD as good. Dean or Jon voted = 7 left.

Wolves kill, 6 left.

Raine + TD + Cupid now cannot be voted off. Tie vote, wrap the game up at night.

BUT, Raine and TD both have weak claims. And they may not realize they should be selling wolves off today to gain cred.

 

[Zell 17]

IDK why I got Jon and Local confused. Local been a wolf too much lately.

 

[Local Hero]

IDK why I got Jon and Local confused. Local been a wolf too much lately.

 

[Jawneh]

That'd be a good plan, especially with a relatively weak town barring the warden. Then again, the wolves aren't super strong either. Man.

Great night for the wolves though. Dean and TD are going pretty good with this, just hopefully they don't push it too far and get both outed.

 

[Jawneh]

IDK why I got Jon and Local confused. Local been a wolf too much lately.

I didn't even bat an eye either when I read that lmao.

 

[Jawneh]

Hmm... we got decent apprentices for sheriffs now too. I can't wait for both of them to come out todsy or tomorrow as apprentice sheriffs lmao.

 

[Zell 17]

@Smacktard and @shortkut here now

 

[Jawneh]

It's only three pages here folks. We need more.

 

[Smacktard]

hay doods

I think I fucked up.
I didn't think there was any way I could fuck up.
But if FR and TD are coupled, then I really fucked up.

 

[Smacktard]

Oh wait, I just read who the couple are. Okay, I think I didn't fuck up quite that bad lolz

 

[Jawneh]

Oh wait, I just read who the couple are. Okay, I think I didn't fuck up quite that bad lolz

Your were fine. Just a matter of time before the wolves honed in on ya. Probably would've been night 2 if my idea was still followed.

 

[Smacktard]

Well Tommy has convinced me that Cupid needs to be re-worked. It's advantageous for him to just claim Cupid and perhaps even out his couple.

Need to make it harsher. Maybe the village is required to kill Cupid to win and Cupid can only win if their couple does. Tired of solos claiming.

Cupid kind of sucks ass. It's a total RNG crapshoot for anyone that draws Cupid. There's so little you can do to affect the game, and one act of randomness -- one Priest chucking water, one wolf kill -- can end your game. I like the chaos Cupid adds to the game, but it's probably the worst role to draw.

The problem is if the couple dies late, cupid could just pair two of say the last 3 people left and the game is over.

But this sounds not like a problem, but a solution to the problem of Cupid. It gives both wolves and town incentive to get rid of Cupid, but it buffs Cupid a bit so that the game is still winnable for them.

 

[GwJumpman]

Introduce a new game mechanic where if you claim a role you just die on the spot

 

[Smacktard]

I gotta say, I'm hella impressed that TD figured out I was the Warden. I didn't give anything away about my role. Hell of a gamble he took, and it paid off.

 

[Jawneh]

Introduce a new game mechanic where if you claim a role you just die on the spot

Some of the other games we got rule against claiming. Not in Zells though. This is his special flavor.

 

[GwJumpman]

Some of the other games we got rule against claiming. Not in Zells though. This is his special flavor.

I can definitely at least see the appeal in people wanting those rules lol

 

[Jawneh]

I gotta say, I'm hella impressed that TD figured out I was the Warden. I didn't give anything away about my role. Hell of a gamble he took, and it paid off.

I already knew after checking the spoilers so I don't know if I saw anything specific from you or if they did other shenanigans.

 

[Jawneh]

I can definitely at least see the appeal in people wanting those rules lol

Oh yeah. I think it was Vash's mafia where claiming was not allowed, but the hints galore is nice. Plus all the other goodies about it. Def try it when he gets up to doing another one like he should already dammit.

 

[Smacktard]

I already knew after checking the spoilers so I don't know if I saw anything specific from you or if they did other shenanigans.

Zell confirmed they didn't know my role, just that TD thought he had figured it out.

FWIW my reads this game were WAY off. Here's some of the highlights:

• FR and Dean coupled
• Raine evil (sort of right lmao)
• Vash evil
• shortkut evil

I thought Jon might be alpha wolf when he came back neutral and didn't make a claim, but didn't think anyone would pursue a lynch.

 

[GwJumpman]

Oh yeah. I think it was Vash's mafia where claiming was not allowed, but the hints galore is nice. Plus all the other goodies about it. Def try it when he gets up to doing another one like he should already dammit.

Maybe I just need more experience playing. I felt very backed into a corner just merely having the role I did in a game where people are claiming roles. I'm incentivized to pick a role on a dartboard and claim it, but everyone's playing by a playbook where that's exactly what they're looking for. So I'm damned if I lie about my role and damned if I keep quiet.

Also god forbid I literally do anything to Tubby I will just get eviscerated regardless of existing politics

 

[Zell 17]

Maybe I just need more experience playing. I felt very backed into a corner just merely having the role I did in a game where people are claiming roles. I'm incentivized to pick a role on a dartboard and claim it, but everyone's playing by a playbook where that's exactly what they're looking for. So I'm damned if I lie about my role and damned if I keep quiet.

Also god forbid I literally do anything to Tubby I will just get eviscerated regardless of existing politics

It's a credibility race. Almost all of the townies are unprovable and there are no seers to speak of since Raine has gone AWOL. So everyone is fighting to claim a spot and establish as much credibility as possible simply based on the strength of their claims.

 

[Jawneh]

Maybe I just need more experience playing. I felt very backed into a corner just merely having the role I did in a game where people are claiming roles. I'm incentivized to pick a role on a dartboard and claim it, but everyone's playing by a playbook where that's exactly what they're looking for. So I'm damned if I lie about my role and damned if I keep quiet.

Also god forbid I literally do anything to Tubby I will just get eviscerated regardless of existing politics

You definitely still had a chance to talk yourself out from the lynch. It's another thing to learn especially if the evils whip up a story against you. Or you try doing to them. All of the other ways. Definitely sucks to go out early as the solo killer. It's all about learning the game and picking up on the nonsense all the usual suspects here try to cook.

 

[Zell 17]

Cupid kind of sucks ass. It's a total RNG crapshoot for anyone that draws Cupid. There's so little you can do to affect the game, and one act of randomness -- one Priest chucking water, one wolf kill -- can end your game. I like the chaos Cupid adds to the game, but it's probably the worst role to draw.

But this sounds not like a problem, but a solution to the problem of Cupid. It gives both wolves and town incentive to get rid of Cupid, but it buffs Cupid a bit so that the game is still winnable for them.

All of the solos non-violent have the problem that they can be rendered totally powerless. The Fool can be revealed by some village abilities like Bell Ringer, or just outright sold by foolish wolves. The headhunter target can be killed. But Cupid can be more active in helping their couple win. They can claim tough guy (they have good Aura) and say they are protecting a person that's coupled. Or claim to be some other role that knows one of their couple is good. Claiming a random role also give their couple room to claim Cupid themselves if they really get boxed into a corner.

 

[GwJumpman]

You definitely still had a chance to talk yourself out from the lynch. It's another thing to learn especially if the evils whip up a story against you. Or you try doing to them. All of the other ways. Definitely sucks to go out early as the solo killer. It's all about learning the game and picking up on the nonsense all the usual suspects here try to cook.

What could I have done to get out of the lynch besides just role claim some BS early?

 

[Smacktard]

Also god forbid I literally do anything to Tubby I will just get eviscerated regardless of existing politics

No, you got eviscerated because you're the SK and it's to no one's benefit to keep you alive.

I'm incentivized to pick a role on a dartboard and claim it, but everyone's playing by a playbook where that's exactly what they're looking for.

If you didn't notice, most of the players haven't made a role claim yet so far this game. I think it's less about what you claim and more about how you position yourself in relation to the town. If you don't seem like you're trying to help the town, the town isn't going to keep you around.

Keep in mind it's hard to win as an evil in Zell games. It still hasn't happened lol. And you've been evil like 3/4 games so far or something?

 

[Zell 17]

What could I have done to get out of the lynch besides just role claim some BS early?

You don't HAVE to claim a role early. But if everyone else is gathering cred, you should too. Note that almost nobody has told the truth so far.

Of those left:

	Claim	Actual
Fool's Requiem	None	Bell Ringer
TD	Beast Hunter	Nightmare Wolf
Benzine	Seer Apprentice	Seer Apprentice
Raine	Red Lady	Detective
Ben	Judge	Judge
Jon	Marksman	Alpha Wolf
Kat	Seer	Loudmouth
Tubby23	Protector	Beast Hunter
Tommy Boy	Cupid	Cupid
VashTheStampede	Flower Child	Seer Apprentice
Dean	Aura Seer	Wolf Seer

 

[Jawneh]

What could I have done to get out of the lynch besides just role claim some BS early?

Sidestepping and putting flack on other people. Seeing what the first folks who accused you were doing and flipping it on them. Ask why you were attacked more than the others who didn't vote for me. Anything specific? Uhh... I'd have to go read again. Like Zell said, there's none really claiming anything super well and seer info is poor. None knows much beyond their vibes on people with some stuff they are gleaming from voting patterns. Also I don't remember when you first voted day 1, but pushing back saying you voted early or at a time when it wasn't established that I'd die yet could also work. Basing their claims on you through hindsight as there was only really Benzine and Kelly with a "trust me bro" against me. Let your imagination flow. There's probably more specific things to do than what I said too. Just got to go find some. And if you don't find any, make some shit up that's plausible.

 

[GwJumpman]

No, you got eviscerated because you're the SK and it's to no one's benefit to keep you alive.

If you didn't notice, most of the players haven't made a role claim yet so far this game. I think it's less about what you claim and more about how you position yourself in relation to the town. If you don't seem like you're trying to help the town, the town isn't going to keep you around.

Keep in mind it's hard to win as an evil in Zell games. It still hasn't happened lol. And you've been evil like 3/4 games so far or something?

In my defense I think the proposition I offered was pretty good and had literally no downside for the village to keep me around.

I'm not gonna be role claiming though in future games unless I have a role that already blew their load or I really have to to keep myself alive or something. It's probably gonna get me killed early I guess but I don't really want to play the role claiming games

 

[Smacktard]

The Fool can be revealed by some village abilities like Bell Ringer, or just outright sold by foolish wolves. The headhunter target can be killed

This is true, but Cupid has these same problems, but to the power of ten.

The Fool and the Head hunter have to try to have a short game, and it's possible that they can pull it off and win during day 1 or 2 when many roles are still masked. Cupid has to win a long game, which doesn't favor SV. The Cupid couple has to try to last to the very end of the game, while fighting against both their own team(s) and the surviving the enemy team(s).

 

[Zell 17]

In my defense I think the proposition I offered was pretty good and had literally no downside for the village to keep me around.

I'm not gonna be role claiming though in future games unless I have a role that already blew their load or I really have to to keep myself alive or something. It's probably gonna get me killed early I guess but I don't really want to play the role claiming games

I don't think people thought you were necessarily bad. But you said that you had no abilities. Kat's logic summed up the bandwagon on you:

-He has no abilities that can help the village
-He didn't help us vote off the wolf we killed yesterday
-We don't know who to vote, but if we DO vote someone, voting jumpman would hurt us the least

 

[Smacktard]

I think the proposition I offered was pretty good and had literally no downside for the village to keep me around.

The downside for the village is that a townie would've died if we didn't lynch you, and also that you could go back on your promise the next day and force the town to waste another day trying to lynch you.

 

[GwJumpman]

The downside for the village is that a townie would've died if we didn't lynch you, and also that you could go back on your promise the next day and force the town to waste another day trying to lynch you.

Maybe if everyone wasn't metagaming so hard and wanted something FUN to happen they could've went along with it. I wouldn't have gone back on the promise

 

[Zell 17]

This is true, but Cupid has these same problems, but to the power of ten.

The Fool and the Head hunter have to try to have a short game, and it's possible that they can pull it off and win during day 1 or 2 when many roles are still masked. Cupid has to win a long game, which doesn't favor SV. The Cupid couple has to try to last to the very end of the game, while fighting against both their own team(s) and the surviving the enemy team(s).

Yeah which is why I let them win with the village if shit goes south. But it's not working because the Cupids know they have a failsafe way to win, no need to risk their necks for their couple.

 

[Zell 17]

Of course, right now the couple has the inside track to a win if they play their cards right. If that happens maybe I do nothing, and the village learns that you should kill off Cupid claims as soon as possible.

 

[Smacktard]

Dean's playing really well

 

[shortkut]

hay doods

I think I fucked up.
I didn't think there was any way I could fuck up.
But if FR and TD are coupled, then I really fucked up.

So TD is wolf

 

[Zell 17]

I don't think the wolves are ever gonna sus out TD as not being truly on their side. I think the only way the wolves can win is if they spike the beast trap, which would kill off the couple.

 

[shortkut]

All roles if you want to play along:

Spoiler

1​	shortkut	RRV	Sheriff
2​	Fool's Requiem	RRV	Bell Ringer
3​	TD	RWW	Nightmare Wolf
4​	canadaguy	RSV	Ritualist
5​	Benzine	RRV	Seer Apprentice
6​	Raine	RSV	Detective
7​	Ben	RRV	Judge
8​	Jon	RWW	Alpha Wolf
9​	Kat	RRV	Loudmouth
10​	Tubby23	RRV	Beast Hunter
11​	Tommy Boy	RV	Cupid
12​	Smacktard	RSV	Warden
13​	Jawneh	RWW	Blind Wolf
14​	VashTheStampede	RRV	Seer Apprentice
15​	GwJumpman	RK	Corruptor
16​	Dean	RWW	Wolf Seer

I called Dean!

 

[canadaguy]

@Zell 17 hypothetical question here

What would happen if a cupid couple is killed and then one of them is revived? Do they both come back? Or just one and they revert fully to their "normal" team?

 

[Zell 17]

@Zell 17 hypothetical question here

What would happen if a cupid couple is killed and then one of them is revived? Do they both come back? Or just one and they revert fully to their "normal" team?

just one with normal team

 

[shortkut]

Raine/TD

Of course he did

 

[shortkut]

@Smacktard would you have used Poughkeepsie in a sentence?

Also why didn’t you give me the weapon

 

[Jawneh]

In my defense I think the proposition I offered was pretty good and had literally no downside for the village to keep me around.

I'm not gonna be role claiming though in future games unless I have a role that already blew their load or I really have to to keep myself alive or something. It's probably gonna get me killed early I guess but I don't really want to play the role claiming games

Thats fair. I don't tend to do it until it's time to blow my load. And recently I did give out a hint that I then turned into a meme of its own the next two games. But I def prefer not claiming.

Then again, I tend to change some of my playstyle (or try to) every game so maybe next one I come yelling who I am straight out the door.

 

[GwJumpman]

I'm gonna make a table with 20 different playstyles and roll a d20 each game

 

[shortkut]

I'm gonna make a table with 20 different playstyles and roll a d20 each game

 

[Smacktard]

Also why didn’t you give me the weapon

I thought between you and TD, one of you wasn't evil. Ultimately didn't think it mattered who I gave the weapon to because I figured a wolf wouldn't use it. Didn't count on what happened happening.

@Smacktard would you have used Poughkeepsie in a sentence?

No, and in fact Vash tried to get me to use a fruit in a sentence so I spent part of the day trying to get people to say fruits. I did eventually get TD to say "strawberry" but Vash missed it

 

[shortkut]

I thought between you and TD, one of you wasn't evil. Ultimately didn't think it mattered who I gave the weapon to because I figured a wolf wouldn't use it. Didn't count on what happened happening.

No, and in fact Vash tried to get me to use a fruit in a sentence so I spent part of the day trying to get people to say fruits. I did eventually get TD to say "strawberry" but Vash missed it

Were you hoping I’d kill Kat?

 

[Smacktard]

Were you hoping I’d kill Kat?

No and in fact all of the talk of going after Kat seemed very wolf-like to me. She's one of the few people who seems to be trying to corral a town of cats, and one of the reasons I thought you were suspicious is because you started going after her, and not voting along with the town.

 

[shortkut]

No and in fact all of the talk of going after Kat seemed very wolf-like to me. She's one of the few people who seems to be trying to corral a town of cats, and one of the reasons I thought you were suspicious is because you started going after her, and not voting along with the town.

Yesterday I really didn’t read the thread, not just skimming like usual. Work is so hectic at the moment. She was sus to me day 1 and I didn’t see anything day 2, so I voted for her again.