Breaking Joe Biden drops out of 2024 presidential race

[VashTheStampede]

I have to be completely honest. If things were the other way around, and I agreed with my candidate on all the issues but they made the same threats to democracy itself, it's easy to sit here and say I'd do the right thing in a hypothetical situation. I would like to think I'd vote for the candidate who would gracefully accept losing an election and not try to seek a third term or make themself president for life like Putin even if I waaay disagreed with them on literally every single issue, but honestly if I found myself facing a choice like that, I know I'd find it extremely hard

Yeah, that would be an extremely tough position to be in.

For a fleeting moment that made me feel a bit of compassion for Trump supporters. But then I remember that it's not like they agree with him on many "issues" other than he makes a lot of them feel better about not liking the people they don't like. Time and time again when faced with questions about actual issues, you see them fall back to the cult of personality and reject logic and reason.

I'd say I truly miss the days where both major sides of American politics just had differences of opinion, before Limbaugh and the talk radio types (and the money men behind them) turned everything into a culture war for profit...but I'm not sure it ever really existed during my political lifetime.

There's been moments.



John McCain, for whatever faults he had, was still a decent human being. Of course Trump had to try and stomp all over his legacy...

 

[Ants!]

I was thinking back to that exact same McCain moment too. Think how differently Trump would have handled that situation. He would have totally fed into it instead. Probably retweeted it a lot too.

 

[Jon]

It's the difference in politics. Trump is the exact reason we don't have this anymore. There's no more bipartisanship. The fearmongering has created a "how dare you work with the other side of the aisle!" mentality. What we have now is disgusting. And it's attributable to one man stoking the fears of the vocal, but minor, bigoted right.

Until he's gone and MAGA itself is run out of politics, the civil "agree to disagree" that used to lead to commonplace is dead in American politics. What we have now is pathetic.

 

[Quagmire]

I have to be completely honest. If things were the other way around, and I agreed with my candidate on all the issues but they made the same threats to democracy itself, it's easy to sit here and say I'd do the right thing in a hypothetical situation. I would like to think I'd vote for the candidate who would gracefully accept losing an election and not try to seek a third term or make themself president for life like Putin even if I waaay disagreed with them on literally every single issue, but honestly if I found myself facing a choice like that, I know I'd find it extremely hard

I don't know if there would ever be a situation like that for Progressive and empathetic people who care about others and want a better world for everyone and don't judge people for the color of their skin or their gender or their ethnicity

 

[MC74]

Yeah I'm sure the number that would actually do something is quite small.

But the number of bumper stickers with similar sentiments you see on a daily basis around here doesn't exactly put one's mind at ease.

We have the same thing happening in Canada with people in the more Conservative areas (typically rural) raising "Fuck Trudeau" flags and posting decals of the logo on their vehicles.

 

[MC74]

It's the difference in politics. Trump is the exact reason we don't have this anymore. There's no more bipartisanship. The fearmongering has created a "how dare you work with the other side of the aisle!" mentality. What we have now is disgusting. And it's attributable to one man stoking the fears of the vocal, but minor, bigoted right.

Until he's gone and MAGA itself is run out of politics, the civil "agree to disagree" that used to lead to commonplace is dead in American politics. What we have now is pathetic.

Yeah, and unfortunately the divide in who leans left or right has seeped up here too. The entire landscape couldn't be any more divided.

 

[VashTheStampede]

We have the same thing happening in Canada with people in the more Conservative areas (typically rural) raising "Fuck Trudeau" flags and posting decals of the logo on their vehicles.

Not being incredibly familiar with Canadian culture, I'm curious:

Are they the same types who would then clutch their pearls and act offended if you did the same thing if their Preferred Leader was in office? And talk about how it's treasonous to disrespect the office like that?

Cause that's always a laugh here.

 

[MC74]

Not being incredibly familiar with Canadian culture, I'm curious:

Are they the same types who would then clutch their pearls and act offended if you did the same thing if their Preferred Leader was in office? And talk about how it's treasonous to disrespect the office like that?

Cause that's always a laugh here.

Oh yeah, we have those types too. We had them immediately jump to Harper's defense when he was under flak for some of the awful shit he did.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Yoooooo

 

[Ants!]

Not being incredibly familiar with Canadian culture, I'm curious:

Are they the same types who would then clutch their pearls and act offended if you did the same thing if their Preferred Leader was in office? And talk about how it's treasonous to disrespect the office like that?

Cause that's always a laugh here.

2009: "Not my president!!!!"

2017: "He is YOUR president!"

Same people both times.

 

[Smacktard]

Perhaps you and I exist in different circumstances?

"The only good liberal is a dead liberal" is not an uncommon sentiment where I live.

I hear some of that rhetoric on the Internet, SOMETIMES, but I dismiss it as anonymous hyperbolic shitposting... But to actually see and hear it in person is something very different, and incredibly fucked up. You obviously have your finger on the pulse in the US more than I do. I can see why you might have a "take no prisoners" mentality when you're bombarded with threats like that all the time.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I hear some of that rhetoric on the Internet, SOMETIMES, but I dismiss it as anonymous hyperbolic shitposting... But to actually see and hear it in person is something very different, and incredibly fucked up. You obviously have your finger on the pulse in the US more than I do. I can see why you might have a "take no prisoners" mentality when you're bombarded with threats like that all the time.

And to your credit, I can 100% see why your first instinct would be to think I'm overreacting (and I'm not completely disregarding the possibility that I somewhat am).

But there's been a few times where I've been discussing current events with the wife and my 10 year old daughter will pop in and be like "ugh Trump sucks" and we feel the need to tell her to be careful about just blabbing that sentiment at school because we don't know if the wrong person is going to hear and what they might do.

Tangentially related, her science teacher this past year was a climate change denier. Ugh, this fucking place.

 

[Gloom-is-good]

And to your credit, I can 100% see why your first instinct would be to think I'm overreacting (and I'm not completely disregarding the possibility that I somewhat am).

You live in Florida right? I can say that you're not overreacting.

One of my bonus kids lives in FL and she has been called slurs to her face. Her family, her pets and home have been threatened and vandalized multiple times by their extremely racist neighbor. They do it in broad daylight. The cops have done nothing because there's no "evidence". Masks are coming off for some of these unhinged people and it's thanks to the orange asshole.

 

[Mark]

And to your credit, I can 100% see why your first instinct would be to think I'm overreacting (and I'm not completely disregarding the possibility that I somewhat am).

But there's been a few times where I've been discussing current events with the wife and my 10 year old daughter will pop in and be like "ugh Trump sucks" and we feel the need to tell her to be careful about just blabbing that sentiment at school because we don't know if the wrong person is going to hear and what they might do.

Tangentially related, her science teacher this past year was a climate change denier. Ugh, this fucking place.

It’s crazy reading things like this when for the bulk of my life, everyone around me has distrusted the government on every level. There’s none of that hardcore conservative rhetoric, and on the flip side, there’s none of the hardcore liberal ideologies either.

Just earlier, my girlfriend and I were pulling into the parking lot for the dispensary and across the street we saw a guy with Trump banners selling shirts, posters, car bullshit, and even FRAMED PORTRAITS of Trump getting a group hug from secret service because he got a boo-boo. There were people lined up with shit in their hands, and multiple groups walking up to the little tent all visible in the time it took to walk from the car to the front door of the store. That shit is wild to me… where I come from, we don’t revere any politician like that.

 

[dimmerwit]

The best thing about that David Cameron piggate thing is that the TV show Black Mirror did an episode where the fictional British PM was forced on TV to have sex with a pig, and then that story comes out in real life.

 

[Jon]

And to your credit, I can 100% see why your first instinct would be to think I'm overreacting (and I'm not completely disregarding the possibility that I somewhat am).

But there's been a few times where I've been discussing current events with the wife and my 10 year old daughter will pop in and be like "ugh Trump sucks" and we feel the need to tell her to be careful about just blabbing that sentiment at school because we don't know if the wrong person is going to hear and what they might do.

Tangentially related, her science teacher this past year was a climate change denier. Ugh, this fucking place.

I miss the days Florida was just America's armpit instead of its asshole.

 

[Ancle Suck]

I mean there's a reason for this

 

[Jon]

I mean there's a reason for this

Can't we just do that to Mar-A-Lago?

 

[Mark]

Can't we just do that to Mar-A-Lago?

Get to the sawzall. You and Vash can handle the whole “measuring twice, cutting once” thing.

 

[Jon]

Get to the sawzall. You and Vash can handle the whole “measuring twice, cutting once” thing.

 

[Mark]

Just remember, use momentum to your favor. Y’all ain’t in your 20’s anymore, that lower back can’t hang like it used to.

 

[Jon]

Just remember, use momentum to your favor. Y’all ain’t in your 20’s anymore, that lower back can’t hang like it used to.

Fucking a-right... don't remind me.

But Vash is older, so.

 

[Mark]

Fucking a-right... don't remind me.

But Vash is older, so.

Y’all are the Wonder Twins that make up an 80 year old man that wants to kick the rednecks off of your lawn in Florida. Your age is irrelevant in the matter if the cause is just.

 

[VashTheStampede]

But Vash is older, so.

That  does explain my wisdom advantage

 

[Jon]

That  does explain my wisdom advantage

MY WISDOM IS 15 VASH, WHAT'S YOURS?

 

[Ants!]

Warned for SPAM

 

[Smacktard]

Just stumbled on this randomly on Reddit

 

[Quagmire]

No shock here, hope she calls him out on it every time she can

 

[Smacktard]

View attachment 18631


No shock here, hope she calls him out on it every time she can

This "story" is kind of the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

The Trump campaign literally just said they wouldn't agree to a debate until Democrats confirm their nominee. That's it. That's the whole story. But the media is making it out to seem like Trump is backing out of the debate entirely. It's disingenuous.

The actual hilarious part is their reply, which reads like it was written by a child:

 

[VashTheStampede]

There were reports starting from just after the Biden/Trump debate that he was thinking of backing out of the September debate.

Then more rumblings recently that he didn't want to debate Kamala. She made a comment about that on the tarmac at 3pm yesterday that it looks like Trump is backing out:



Then 9 hours ago the Trump campaign releases the statement that you've provided.

That sounds to me more like damage control than "the whole story".

 

[Quagmire]

This "story" is kind of the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

The Trump campaign literally just said they wouldn't agree to a debate until Democrats confirm their nominee. That's it. That's the whole story. But the media is making it out to seem like Trump is backing out of the debate entirely. It's disingenuous.

He had no problem debating Biden when Biden wasnt officially the nominee. All he is doing is moving the goal posts, he'll find another reason once Kamala is the official nominee. If Trump was 1% of the leader he claims to be, he'd easily be able to debate whomever the Dems sent out.

 

[Ancle Suck]

This "story" is kind of the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

The Trump campaign literally just said they wouldn't agree to a debate until Democrats confirm their nominee. That's it. That's the whole story. But the media is making it out to seem like Trump is backing out of the debate entirely. It's disingenuous.

The actual hilarious part is their reply, which reads like it was written by a child:
View attachment 18632

Yeah, no. They had already been saying things trying to change the format of the debate or change it from what was already agreed to and we already even discussed it in this thread. He publicly even said he wouldn't debate unless it was changed from the already agreed to ABC hosted one to Fox News. Then he got more wafflley. Then he was rightfully called out for it and came out with a child like excuse to not look bad. She's now taking every opportunity to call him out on it that she can, which is what she should be doing.

There's no way you can honestly believe the statement he made is the actual story unless you're being willfully obtuse.

 

[Smacktard]

He had no problem debating Biden when Biden wasnt officially the nominee. All he is doing is moving the goal posts, he'll find another reason once Kamala is the official nominee. If Trump was 1% of the leader he claims to be, he'd easily be able to debate whomever the Dems sent out.

It's not the same at all. There was no serious effort or intent to replace Biden from within the Democratic party UNTIL he debated. If the debate hadn't happened, it's likely we'd still be looking at Biden as the nominee.

There's still way more uncertainty surrounding Kamala as the candidate than there was Biden pre-debate.

Then more rumblings recently that he didn't want to debate Kamala. She made a comment about that on the tarmac at 3pm yesterday that it looks like Trump is backing out:

I saw those rumblings too, but I still don't know where they came from. He said he'd debate the nominee in September. He lies all the time, yes, but there's been no indication that he won't debate whoever the nominee is.

 

[Smacktard]

Yeah, no. They had already been saying things trying to change the format of the debate or change it from what was already agreed to and we already even discussed it in this thread. He publicly even said he wouldn't debate unless it was changed from the already agreed to ABC hosted one to Fox News. Then he got more wafflley. Then he was rightfully called out for it and came out with a child like excuse to not look bad. She's now taking every opportunity to call him out on it that she can, which is what she should be doing.

There's no way you can honestly believe the statement he made is the actual story unless you're being willfully obtuse.

New candidate, new debate rules. I genuinely don't see what the issue is with that. He agreed to the ABC debate with Biden. Now that there's a new presumptive candidate, I don't see why the rules should be the same. I don't think that Fox News is capable of hosting a fair and reasonable debate nowadays (with 2020 and Newsom v De Santis as evidence), but it's not unnatural for a candidate to push for a debate format that best suits himself.

 

[Ancle Suck]

Also of note, there was a point when Trump said the VP debates shouldn't go on because he was anticipating it not being Biden as the nominee. So before Biden dropped out he was trying to have debates not happen.

Trump campaign refuses to commit to a VP debate before August's Democratic convention

Trump's campaign has suggested it's premature to agree to a vice presidential debate because Biden may wind up not being the Democratic nominee.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Smacktard]

Also of note, there was a point when Trump said the VP debates shouldn't go on because he was anticipating it not being Biden as the nominee. So before Biden dropped out he was trying to have debates not happen.

Trump campaign refuses to commit to a VP debate before August's Democratic convention

Trump's campaign has suggested it's premature to agree to a vice presidential debate because Biden may wind up not being the Democratic nominee.

www.nbcnews.com

literally every single election cycle involving trump there were news stories about how "trump is refusing to debate primaries/hillary/biden/biden again/kamala!!!!!" and literally every single team he ends up on the debate stage, with the sole exception of the second primaries, which would've been a waste of time for him, anyway. Cowardly, too, sure, but still a waste of time.

 

[Ancle Suck]

He went from "really good debate" to sowing doubt there would be another because he "didn't know if Biden would be the nominee" to "oh well now we need new rules"

We all knew what was coming next. He's rightfully being called out on it. He wants to delay as much as possible to stop any extra momentum that might come up, so he's going to try and push the decision off until after the DNC and then try to come up with a different excuse unless he's goaded enough to be forced into one.

He doesn't want to debate her because they don't have a strategy on her yet and he realizes that he won't have the advantage of it being Biden bring unable to be coherent next to him.


He needs to be called out on it repeatedly until it's officially happening or it's going to kill momentum.

 

[Ancle Suck]

literally every single election cycle involving trump there were news stories about how "trump is refusing to debate primaries/hillary/biden/biden again/kamala!!!!!" and literally every single team he ends up on the debate stage, with the sole exception of the second primaries, which would've been a waste of time for him, anyway. Cowardly, too, sure, but still a waste of time.

That's because he's demanded there to be fewer debates, which is something others hadn't done, at least not nearly to that extent, before.

If he's not called out the won't happen because he'll think everyone is fine with it being that way.

 

[VashTheStampede]

literally every single election cycle involving trump there were news stories about how "trump is refusing to debate primaries/hillary/biden/biden again/kamala!!!!!" and literally every single team he ends up on the debate stage, with the sole exception of the second primaries, which would've been a waste of time for him, anyway. Cowardly, too, sure, but still a waste of time.

It's posturing from him. And it works, because then the networks and opposition agree to insane rules to get him to agree to debate.

Like in this past debate with Biden where there was a rule that the moderator was not allowed to fact check any of the countless lies he spewed.

So maybe it makes sense not to just mindlessly repeat their press release and treating it as the "real story" when it's just posturing to be in control of the situation.

 

[Ancle Suck]

It's posturing from him. And it works, because then the networks and opposition agree to insane rules to get him to agree to debate.

Like in this past debate with Biden where there was a rule that the moderator was not allowed to fact check any of the countless lies he spewed.

So maybe it makes sense not to just mindlessly repeat their press release and treating it as the "real story" when it's just posturing to be in control of the situation.

Especially when the complaint is coming from people "hearing rumblings" about him not wanting to debate leading to the statements, when his official release is nothing but unsubstantiated rumors being used as excuses for not wanting to debate.

Also the Obama's have officially endorsed, so there goes that part of his excuse.

 

[Ants!]

There's still way more uncertainty surrounding Kamala as the candidate than there was Biden pre-debate.

Bullshit. She has the necessary delegates and nobody is challenging her. People had doubts about Biden and his age BEFORE the debates. No one is calling for Harris to drop out. If anything there is MORE certainty than there was with Biden. She is the presumptive nominee.

You're choosing a weird hill to die on.

 

[Smacktard]

Bullshit. She has the necessary delegates and nobody is challenging her. People had doubts about Biden and his age BEFORE the debates. No one is calling for Harris to drop out. If anything there is MORE certainty than there was with Biden. She is the presumptive nominee.

You're choosing a weird hill to die on.

It's not a hill to die on, it just logically made more sense to me considering there were no calls for Biden to drop out prior to the debate. But betting odds actually tracks with what you're saying. Kamala's odds to be the nominee are higher now than Biden's were pre-debate. I find that kind of shocking, since there were no challengers to Biden, but many names were floated as his replacement after his departure.

So maybe it makes sense not to just mindlessly repeat their press release and treating it as the "real story" when it's just posturing to be in control of the situation.

Funny how Republicans can be accused of doing that, but Democrats can't. Isn't Kamala coming out and saying "Trump is trying to avoid debating me" the exact same of posturing to be in control of the situation? Kamala is accusing Trump of not dodging a debate, and Trump is currently saying, "I will after you're confirmed as the nominee at the DNC convention". One of these things is not like the other.

 

[Ancle Suck]

She has the necessary delegates

Just to be clear, this is true. Enough states have confirmed that their delegates will be going to Harris that she has what she needs to be the nominee. There is no doubt at this point it will be her.

 

[Ancle Suck]

it just logically made more sense to me considering there were no calls for Biden to drop out prior to the debate.

There were calls for him to drop out pre-debate. There just weren't as many of them.

Funny how Republicans can be accused of doing that, but Democrats can't. Isn't Kamala coming out and saying "Trump is trying to avoid debating me" the exact same of posturing to be in control of the situation? Kamala is accusing Trump of not dodging a debate, and Trump is currently saying, "I will after you're confirmed as the nominee at the DNC convention". One of these things is not like the other.

Nope. He was already posturing ways to back out of debates prior to Biden dropping out. He's continued his rhetoric of being wishy-washy on it, so it's not at all the same thing.

Trump is being called out for trying to weasel his way into either not debating at all or being getting more concessions after already making statements about both. Trump is coming up with excuses as to why he's not willing to debate currently after being called out for it.

 

[Ancle Suck]

Honestly, he came out and said he didn't want to finalize a VP debate against Harris because of what was then an unfathomable "Biden might drop out" remark (even he was shocked it actually happened). Then he said he wanted a different format for the debate after Biden dropped out and Harris became the presumptive nominee.

That's two instances of directly making comments about wanting to back out of debates involving Harris.

 

[Ants!]

Funny how Republicans can be accused of doing that, but Democrats can't. Isn't Kamala coming out and saying "Trump is trying to avoid debating me" the exact same of posturing to be in control of the situation? Kamala is accusing Trump of not dodging a debate, and Trump is currently saying, "I will after you're confirmed as the nominee at the DNC convention". One of these things is not like the other.

She is literally just calling him out. He's the one saying things like "chaos" when there's not. Putting words in Obama's mouth too. She literally just said seven words, more than half of which was quoting his own words back at him. Hers is also just a reaction to something he already did. What is she supposed to do? Say "that's fine I you don't need to debate me"?

They're not treated the same because they're literally not the same. You'd do good to find a better example of mudslinging to make your point.

 

[VashTheStampede]

It's not a hill to die on, it just logically made more sense to me considering there were no calls for Biden to drop out prior to the debate.

There 100% was. There were a fair amount of Democratic voters who voted for Biden 4 years ago in the primaries because he had led the electorate to believe that he wouldn't run for re-election if he became president (due to concerns about his advancing age), and were unhappy that he went back on that.

After the debate it just went mainstream.

Funny how Republicans can be accused of doing that, but Democrats can't. Isn't Kamala coming out and saying "Trump is trying to avoid debating me" the exact same of posturing to be in control of the situation? Kamala is accusing Trump of not dodging a debate, and Trump is currently saying, "I will after you're confirmed as the nominee at the DNC convention". One of these things is not like the other.

She was responding to repeated reports that Trump was weighing backing out of the debates. Those reports were likely leaks from his camp to (1) set up expectations and (2) be a test balloon to gauge public reaction.

Also historical context is important. Trump has proven time and again to be a liar about literally everything. And I'm not misusing "literally" here. At some point the country may likely decide this isn't the time that Lucy is going to hold that football for Charlie Brown.

 

[Smacktard]

There were calls for him to drop out pre-debate. There just weren't as many of them.

By that same token, there are calls now for the Democratic nominee to be decided by voters, rather than just handing it over to Kamala. I've seen more of this than I had pre-debate calls for Biden to drop out.

Honestly, he came out and said he didn't want to finalize a VP debate against Harris because of what was then an unfathomable "Biden might drop out" remark (even he was shocked it actually happened). Then he said he wanted a different format for the debate after Biden dropped out and Harris became the presumptive nominee.

So he correctly predicted that Biden could drop out and said there was no point scheduling VP debates with Harris, and this is evidence that he's being wishy-washy? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What is she supposed to do? Say "that's fine I you don't need to debate me"?

Did you forget the part where there was no sourced claim from the Trump team that Trump wouldn't debate her? Kamala's remarks came BEFORE Trump's official statement, from . Out of thin air, the narrative appeared that Trump wasn't willing to debate. She wasn't responding to Trump or an official statement from his campaign. She was responding to Literally a Tweet from a former editor of The Daily Beast. She didn't have to say anything at all.

And when the Trump campaign said, "We will debate the de facto nominee in the future" all she would have to say is "ok".

He's the one saying things like "chaos" when there's not. Putting words in Obama's mouth too.

Yeah, Trump is a piece of shit. We know this. I'm not saying Kamala is literally the ethical equivalent of Trump. I'm saying that it exhausts me when Dems are dishonest, too.

She was responding to repeated reports that Trump was weighing backing out of the debates. Those reports were likely leaks from his camp to (1) set up expectations and (2) be a test balloon to gauge public reaction.

That's supposition. They could just as easily have been bait so that Harris campaign accuses him of trying to back out of debates, at which point he could say something like, "I'm not backing out of the debate; I'll debate whoever the de facto nominee is." Yknow, like what's happening now.

Also historical context is important. Trump has proven time and again to be a liar about literally everything. And I'm not misusing "literally" here

If historical context is important, why ignore the history of multiple news stories from the past two elections claiming Trump would dodge primary and presidential debates? It's all bullshit. It's just more fucking political theater to drum up drama and clicks. If I'm wrong in September, feel free to quote this post and rub it in my face. I'll even hang my head in shame and eat my humble pie.

 

[VashTheStampede]

So what we know is:

There was a debate scheduled.

Trump says it's inappropriate to schedule a debate.

So therefore there is no debate currently scheduled.

But it's disingenuous to say that he pulled out?

He did. He will 95% push back in. But he has currently pulled out.

That's all that was reported: "Trump is backing out."

 

[Ants!]

What is dishonest here? It's weird you believe Trump so readily when he's used dodge and delay and posturing tactics on debates before. He's not doubtful about who the nominee is, he's trying to cast doubt on it. It's not legit. Calling him out on it IS honest. Again this is not the example you should go with to try to continue this point of yours about the Dems.