Sony FF7 Rebirth Spoilers Now Available [Seriously, leaks]

[Raine]

I've marked the spoilers in this opening post. That's it. Last warning!

Article:

State of Play Recap: Final Fantasy VII Rebirth demo out today, 11 minutes of new gameplay revealed
Dive into a comprehensive roundup of FFVII Rebirth news and learn how the sequel evolves the remake project.

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, the newest installment in the Final Fantasy VII remake project and one of 2024’s most-anticipated games, tells the tale of main protagonist Cloud Strife and his loyal companions who explore a massive world outside Midgar, the city of Mako, as they pursue Sephiroth, one of the most iconic antagonists in video game history.

Ahead of the full game’s release on February 29, the demo releasing today allows you to not only take control of the protagonist, Cloud, but take full control of the legendary swordsman Sephiroth in battle. You will be able to play as Sephiroth as part of the extended flashback section, as Cloud recalls an earlier mission in his career as a Soldier – the Nibelheim incident. Taking place several years before the events of the game, this will set the stage for several important moments within Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. What’s more, we’re planning to release an update later this month that will allow you to explore part of the Junon region before the release of the full game on February 29. We hope you’ll take this opportunity to venture into the world of Final Fantasy VII!

​

Today’s State of Play includes a new trailer focusing on the story of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth alongside around 11 minutes of never-before seen gameplay. This footage includes the world premiere of many unseen elements of the game: an overview of the world map, ways to get around the expansive world including a wide range of vehicles and mounts, varied exploration, minigames, and much more.

It’s a must-see, both for those excitedly awaiting Final Fantasy VII Rebirth and those who have yet to dive into the world of Final Fantasy VII.

Source: https://blog.playstation.com/2024/02/06/state-of-play-recap-final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-demo-out-today-11-minutes-of-new-gameplay-revealed/

 

[TD]

For those of you who like review scores as an indicator...

93/100 based on 116 critics.

Apparently the reviews may have spoilers, so I'd avoid them if you care.

 

[Benzine]

i'm pretty sure i know what happens in ff7 haha

(yes i know)

 

[TD]

I'm not too worried about spoilers as it's unlikely I'll ever play it (never even played Remake DLC) - but obviously if anyone wants to discuss they should be able to as long as spoiler tags are used.

 

[Jon]

i'm pretty sure i know what happens in ff7 haha

(yes i know)

I don't know if I want them to be faithful to the original or change it. But I'm looking forward to the journey.

This is an EARLY GOTY candidate and it's not even out yet.

 

[Raine]

Street date got broken ~2 weeks ago, so I'm sure spoilers are rampant all across the internet. I haven't felt the itch to go look and laugh; I've done that for every Kingdom Hearts game post-KH1, FF15 and FF16. Amongst other random things I had no intention of playing.

I think that means I'm officially old now.

...I'll now go and look up the singular question I have about it, just to do it.

 

[TD]

Spoiler: Gameplay clip, spoiler

Apparently thirsty fans are losing their minds at this.

 

[Raine]

...Of course they did. Of course.

Spoiler

JFC at Tifa, Square. What the shit is that. I legit can't tell if I'm irritated because that trope sucks, because I'm me, or because it's just bad and doesn't translate at all to a semi-realistic game. ...With or without the awful Male Gaze camera and whatnot.

I need a table to flip!

 

[TD]

Spoiler

I personally don't get the appeal of it - but then again, that's not a factor as to why I like games.

...besides, if I'm going to pick one from FFVII it's my girl Yuffie, who thankfully has not been subjected to that.

 

[Raine]

Spoiler

Yeah, I just don't get it. Like obviously I'm not a prude or anything, but... there's a time and a place, and Square/Japan is really obnoxious about it. You could legit just do that scene as-is with a less voyeuristic camera (and Tifa not intentionally lifting herself) and it'd be fine for both the horny audience and the old, jaded audience that cares about character motivations and tonal consistency.

 

[Raine]

Spoiler: Additional thought!

Also I just realized Barret is there in that scene. Wearing a sailor outfit for no discernible reason.

Hopefully those are all just awful DLC costumes everyone can opt to not buy.

I know that's very naive and doesn't address the camerawork, but... lol

 

[TD]

Spoiler

Absolutely. Like, I'm not going to be playing that game for many reasons but if I wanted to, it just feels unnecessary.

For example, my wife likes watching what I play - but a scene like that I could see her asking me "wtf are you playing?", it's not like we'd get in a fight or anything but it's just another layer.

There are games that are purposely sexual and you know what you're getting into and that's fine - but for a genre like RPGs where it's supposed to be storytelling?

No thanks.

 

[TD]

Spoiler: Additional thought!

Also I just realized Barret is there in that scene. Wearing a sailor outfit for no discernible reason.

Hopefully those are all just awful DLC costumes everyone can opt to not buy.

I know that's very naive and doesn't address the camerawork, but... lol

Spoiler

The sailor outfit on Barret was actually a thing in the original.

 

[Raine]

...Okay there are absolutely some things they shouldn't have adapted 1:1.

That's one of them.

What the shiiit, I have no memory of this.

 

[TD]

Spoiler

Just wait until you hear what they did with the ending.

 

[Raine]

Down the rabbit hole we go, then. Confirming the video you posted isn't DLC outfits, because fucking Famitsu also posted it which means this is official Square PR. And... I feel like I'm already aging from the stress and the cringe I'm going to experience...

Spoiler: Famitsu Tweet, same video

Google translate:
"Play review of 77 hours of playing FF7 Rebirth
We will deliver the 7 points we felt there along with a video.

All the characters are endearingly unique, and there are scenes where you can't help but lean in at a date event."

 

[TD]

Spoiler

Good luck. If you thought Remake was fucked up, you're in for a ride.

 

[Raine]

EVERYTHING IN THIS POST AND BEYOND IS DISCUSSING THE LEAKS

NOT THE DEMO

I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR

---

Grain of salt and all... but yeah, curiosity sufficiently sated at this point.

Spoiler: Do NOT click, all the things inside

Sounds like it's going about where I figured it would, from the moment I learned Remake wasn't a remake, with the multi-universe shit (/blatantly following the Marvel trend, as modern Square is wont to do) . Accompanied by a literal who's who of bad and stupid Square Enix story beats and tropes from the last ~20 years, all rolled into one package that I could never be bothered to deal with. I feel increasingly sorry for the people that just wanted a simple, faithful modern version of the original game.

If the Aerith stuff is true, about "our" Aerith still dying but with none of the fanfare, then Holy Fucking Shit™ did they botch that. It would be entirely on brand, but that will somehow ignite significant portions of both ends of that fence and I cannot fathom why they'd do it that way.

 

[Raine]

I got completely knocked the fuck out by two things in my Quest for Knowledge though. I would not qualify the one as a spoiler, and the other isn't related to FF7 Rebirth at all but I still need to post it because it plays into The Bad.



And the above exists because of shit like this:



My rage and fury are soaring to hitherto unheard of levels.

 

[TD]

Going more in depth than you...

Spoiler: ALL The Spoilers, Do not click if you care

Oh it's definitely true, multiple people who have completed it have confirmed. But hey at least there's a second Aerith from Zack's timeline or whatever crazy shit they're doing. But yeah, her death lacks any of the meaning it had in the first... the final battle pulls a Crisis Core style ending but the people are there and it's not memories, oh... and Holy gets corrupted apparently. Yup.

 

[Raine]

Not really keen on dooming and glooming in a thread people are having fun in, so here is fine.

Famitsu numbers are now out for Rebirth, and...

01./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy VII Remake # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2020.04.10} (¥8.980) - 702.853 / NEW
01./00. [PS5] Final Fantasy XVI # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2023.06.22} (¥9.000) - 336.027 / NEW
01./00. [PS5] Final Fantasy VII Rebirth – 262,656 / NEW

It's opened with less than XVI, which topped out at ~3 million units sold in the launch window before crawling to ~4 million.

Sony just paid a ton of money to Square to secure (console) exclusivity, which... I mean Square losing out on Xbox sales is whatever. But losing out on Switch 2 sales would maybe be catastrophic for them? Out of the gate this is ~22% weaker, and XVI saw a roughly 90% drop in Week 2 soo... yikes. They avoided this:

But I'm not sure that alone is enough.

NPD/Circana (so, USA) numbers will be out on the afternoon of the 14th.



Also, I am literally in hell. Why is this a thing.

Spoiler: Yuffie

 

[Jon]

Keep in mind FF16 was hyped up primarily because of the demo. And outside the demo, the game was a boring mess that deviated significantly from FF main title design. I was super hyped for 16 and got bored out of my skull about 10 hours in and haven't gone back to it yet.

I doubt Rebirth is going to hit that same stumbling point. 16 was also the first game in about 3 years since Remake and people were jonesin' for a FF fixin.

I'm enjoying Rebirth a MILLION times more than 16, so I'm not willing to give credence to sales numbers.

But that's just me.

 

[Raine]

I doubt Rebirth is going to hit that same stumbling point. 16 was also the first game in about 3 years since Remake and people were jonesin' for a FF fixin.

XVI absolutely had piss poor word of mouth, and that factored heavily into the ~90% drop and then complete lack of legs.

FF7R has a lot working against it - cross-generation, DLC, episodic format - but it's still "the" face of the brand, so... I feel like it should be doing better than this?

By all accounts the game is a massive improvement over Remake, too, so there's that.

 

[Jon]

FF7R has a lot working against it - cross-generation, DLC, episodic format - but it's still "the" face of the brand, so... I feel like it should be doing better than this?

Remake is the only one that's cross generation. The 3rd one MAY fall prey to it, but I don't think so. I'm a firm believer the next generation will push out because of the delays at the start of this one...

That is unless you believe the rumors that Microsoft isn't planning a mid gen upgrade and instead plan on releasing the next generation at least a full TWO YEARS ahead of Sony. I don't believe that personally because it would be Microsoft admitting their console pales in comparison to the PS5 and they resort to jumping the gun to compete... and Phil Spencer is far too big a narcissist to do that.

Also, Intergrade and Yuffie's DLC is the only one planned for now. They've already said there is no intent on DLC for Rebirth. Not sure I believe that either, but that's what they've said. Episodic is definitely hurting it because there's no real connection to each game. You start each game over, essentially and relevel all the characters. And it takes what? 10 years to retell a story we've known (mostly) for 30?

I will say, though, the pandemic aided in driving sales for Remake. And inflation is hurting sales of this one. Remember, when the pandemic hit and by the time Remake was released in April, everyone was home. And Remake was on PS4, a console people had for 10 years. And PS4 games were $60, $10 less than PS5 games now. And people had waited 30 years for a remake of 7 and was hyped for 4-5 years from it's initial announcement. All this contributes to this not being apples to apples and hard to quantify, in my opinion.

By all accounts the game is a massive improvement over Remake, too, so there's that.

It is. In so many ways. I'm finally hitting some interesting deviations in the story that I'm hooked full it and invested. It's easily going to win GOTY. I can't foresee a game coming close.

 

[Raine]

That is unless you believe the rumors that Microsoft isn't planning a mid gen upgrade and instead plan on releasing the next generation at least a full TWO YEARS ahead of Sony. I don't believe that personally because it would be Microsoft admitting their console pales in comparison to the PS5 and they resort to jumping the gun to compete... and Phil Spencer is far too big a narcissist to do that.

Not really sure what to believe with Microsoft at the moment. Though, jumping the gun and flooding the market - RRoD notwithstanding - did wonders for the X360, so I definitely wouldn't rule it out. Have to factor in how they've fucked up with the Series S too, where that caused issues with getting Baldur's Gate 3 onto the platform in a timely manner. They really can't afford to give Sony free timed exclusivity experiences like that, y'know?

Also, Intergrade and Yuffie's DLC is the only one planned for now. They've already said there is no intent on DLC for Rebirth. Not sure I believe that either, but that's what they've said.

Yeah I definitely don't believe them on that one. They said the same thing about XVI, and lo and behold - two DLCs! Not sure they bothered to specify for Remake itself, but at the same time, I'm not sure the Yuffie DLC was necessary? And they've kind of done a dirty with Rebirth out of the gate where apparently Cid and Vincent are present but not playable, which just reeks of at least one getting a DLC chapter.

I will say, though, the pandemic aided in driving sales for Remake. And inflation is hurting sales of this one. Remember, when the pandemic hit and by the time Remake was released in April, everyone was home. And Remake was on PS4, a console people had for 10 years. And PS4 games were $60, $10 less than PS5 games now. And people had waited 30 years for a remake of 7 and was hyped for 4-5 years from it's initial announcement. All this contributes to this not being apples to apples and hard to quantify, in my opinion.

Absolutely, but that's sort of what I'm getting at - from the best interests of/for Square themselves, XVI and Rebirth probably should not be exclusive to the PS5. They should minimally have also been on the PS4, and absolutely Day 1 on PC - if not Xbox as well, just to pick up the extra 15~20%.

The only ones "helped" by exclusivity are Sony, and even there - Rebirth's launch in Japan did not boost PS5 sales. At all. And, for good measure, the Switch continued to easily outsell the PS5 for the week.

It is. In so many ways. I'm finally hitting some interesting deviations in the story that I'm hooked full it and invested. It's easily going to win GOTY. I can't foresee a game coming close.

I think it'll have some competition from the likes of Monster Hunter Wilds and Dragon's Dogma 2, at least. And if Grand Theft Auto VI lands before mid-December, from a general masses perspective, that's a done deal. ~3 million Rebirth players versus that behemoth? No chance in hell for most any publication, I'd think. Even if I don't super like what GTA has been putting down post-San Andreas.

 

[Jon]

And they've kind of done a dirty with Rebirth out of the gate where apparently Cid and Vincent are present but not playable, which just reeks of at least one getting a DLC chapter.

I will say, i just met Cid, and so far, it seems more like what they are trying to do what they did with Red XIII. Non-controllable party members. At least, if seems MAYBE Vincent will be. Cid is just a side character thus far, but I don't know if Rocket Town is in this game. It SHOULD be since the Tiny Bronco is controllable in the water. Vincent, no idea. Not to Nibelheim in present day yet.

All I heard prior to release is they wanted to save a couple new playable members of the team for the 3rd game, and wanted to polish their fight mechanics.

Absolutely, but that's sort of what I'm getting at - from the best interests of/for Square themselves, XVI and Rebirth probably should not be exclusive to the PS5. They should minimally have also been on the PS4, and absolutely Day 1 on PC - if not Xbox as well, just to pick up the extra 15~20%.

The only ones "helped" by exclusivity are Sony, and even there - Rebirth's launch in Japan did not boost PS5 sales. At all. And, for good measure, the Switch continued to easily outsell the PS5 for the week.

I don't necessarily agree, but the exclusivity of FF was one of my biggest draws to Sony the last 3 generations. Sony paid a lot for the exclusive rights. BUT there is one big thing that benefits Square Enix with an exclusive: You're not fighting the multi platform development issues. You're releasing for one specific platform and not having to jump through multiple switching ones. It's more dev time and work for multiplatforms. If they aren't really doing DLC, then the exclusive 6 month window is a great time to polish the port to other platforms. At least that's my opinion.

I think it'll have some competition from the likes of Monster Hunter Wilds and Dragon's Dogma 2, at least. And if Grand Theft Auto VI lands before mid-December, from a general masses perspective, that's a done deal. ~3 million Rebirth players versus that behemoth? No chance in hell for most any publication, I'd think. Even if I don't super like what GTA has been putting down post-San Andreas.

Competition, sure. Don't think they can beat it. And honestly, I don't know that GTA6 would either. That game has a huge audience, but I feel the online mode hurts it in those awards.

 

[Raine]

I don't necessarily agree, but the exclusivity of FF was one of my biggest draws to Sony the last 3 generations. Sony paid a lot for the exclusive rights. BUT there is one big thing that benefits Square Enix with an exclusive: You're not fighting the multi platform development issues. You're releasing for one specific platform and not having to jump through multiple switching ones. It's more dev time and work for multiplatforms. If they aren't really doing DLC, then the exclusive 6 month window is a great time to polish the port to other platforms. At least that's my opinion.

In theory, yeah, absolutely. I don't know about how that fares in practice though, and there's a price to be paid for not having a consistent presence on a platform. Like yeah XIII and XV did like 4:1 or 5:1 PS3/4 to X360/Xbone, but Square needs to - and I don't think they have - do the math on how many of those people are going to refuse to support them when they invariably limp back onto the platform. A lot of Xbox-only people are ready to boycott anything else Square does bring over, because they bought Star Ocean 6 but then didn't get Star Ocean 2, bought Diofield but weren't allowed to have Tactics Ogre.

People are pissed that 3+ years later, the Kingdom Hearts games are still on Epic Games Store and there's not a hint of a Steam release. They just... don't seem interested in listening to or learning about trends and the wants of their potential audience. And instead, just do dumb shit like making XVI chase Devil May Cry and/or God of War to, at best, mixed reactions. And take moneyhats left, right and center - without rhyme or reason. Lest we forget that they took one from Microsoft for one of the modern Tomb Raider games (Rise I think?), and that predictably blew up in their face.

Competition, sure. Don't think they can beat it. And honestly, I don't know that GTA6 would either. That game has a huge audience, but I feel the online mode hurts it in those awards.

Could be, I can't say I pay super close attention. Especially for, like, The Game Awards proper - I just catch the reveals after the show is over, have a couple sensible chuckles at the categories/winners, and kind of call it a day.

Doesn't really help that in my case I'm lucky to experience 1 game a year in a timely manner, and that game is completely irrelevant to GOTY or awards in general. Like last year it was just Armored Core 6, this year... might be Persona 3 Reload and Eiyuden Chronicles at best.

 

[Jon]

They just... don't seem interested in listening to or learning about trends and the wants of their potential audience.

To be fair, there are not many publishers or developers that do.

 

[MC74]

To be fair, there are not many publishers or developers that do.

Yep, when indie developers are pushing out games that are better than AAA titles.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

So I finished up chapter 8/ Dyne last night and I think that was a momentum killer for me. I've been okay-to-on board with other adjustments but I genuinely think they ruined what was an incredibly striking segment in the original and just straight-up did that moment dirty. I don't know if someone missed the point, if they got too squeamish about handling that subject matter with 2024 graphics, or what but it fuckin' sucked and I think I'm probably switching the game to easy so I can blow through the rest. And this sucks, because I was really looking forward to getting to that segment too!

 

[Jon]

So I finished up chapter 8/ Dyne last night and I think that was a momentum killer for me. I've been okay-to-on board with other adjustments but I genuinely think they ruined what was an incredibly striking segment in the original and just straight-up did that moment dirty. I don't know if someone missed the point, if they got too squeamish about handling that subject matter with 2024 graphics, or what but it fuckin' sucked and I think I'm probably switching the game to easy so I can blow through the rest. And this sucks, because I was really looking forward to getting to that segment too!

Really? I found how they handled that segment to be incredibly powerful and emotional. I felt like it held to the original continuity fairly well. Including the fact he saw his wife with his dying moments and died with his daughter's picture in his hand.

What exactly about it changed and bothered you, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Largely the fact that they largely just made him a more generic anti-Shinra nutter vs a man so deeply consumed by nihilism in the wake of tragedy that when he hears his daughter is not actually dead, *he intends on killing her to reunite her with her mother*. Couple that with him going out in a heroic hail of gunfire against a (completely unnecessary) Shinra force against the much more somber scene of him lamenting his losses before succumbing to suicide and the scene lost absolutely all the bite that made the original worth remembering. The cherry on top was missing out on Barrett's "My hands ain't any cleaner." I can complain further about the following Palmer fight really fucking the mood up more, but that's also the least of my issues..

I just very genuinely hate it. They had the opportunity to take one of the most grim, striking scenes from the original and refine it even further using what's at their disposal and instead they basically shifted it to be much more neat and sanitized in a way I did not like. If this had been what was in the original, it would not have stuck with me like it did.

 

[Jon]

Largely the fact that they largely just made him a more generic anti-Shinra nutter vs a man so deeply consumed by nihilism in the wake of tragedy that when he hears his daughter is not actually dead, *he intends on killing her to reunite her with her mother*. Couple that with him going out in a heroic hail of gunfire against a (completely unnecessary) Shinra force against the much more somber scene of him lamenting his losses before succumbing to suicide and the scene lost absolutely all the bite that made the original worth remembering. The cherry on top was missing out on Barrett's "My hands ain't any cleaner." I can complain further about the following Palmer fight really fucking the mood up more, but that's also the least of my issues..

I just very genuinely hate it. They had the opportunity to take one of the most grim, striking scenes from the original and refine it even further using what's at their disposal and instead they basically shifted it to be much more neat and sanitized in a way I did not like. If this had been what was in the original, it would not have stuck with me like it did.

I see. Interesting. Funny how things like this affect people differently. The original was something that stood out to me too and was looking forward to it here, but I got the total opposite out of it than you did. I do think they could have built up the needless homicides from Dyne a bit more, but they changed the prison significantly, so this made some sense to me. Not to mention, murdering a child is not something that sits with any real person, and putting that to a voiced scene as opposed to a text based narrative probably would turn too many people off. That said, the emotion of his dying words, going out in a fiery hail of bullets and seeing his wife telling her he's home was a bit of a tear jerker to me, personally, and I thought that coupled with his grasping the photo of Marlene was symbolic.

But, I find it interesting how two people can view the same scene with drastically different views. I've moved on to the start of Chapter 12 now, and I can say that the somber shift in Barret's personality is noticeable. Something I didn't feel in the text based original.

 

[Jon]

Something else that just crossed my mind, too...

In the original, it was a redemption arc for Barrett, somewhat. Before his suicide, Dyne forgives Barrett and asks him to keep caring for Marlene because he has too much blood on his hands.

We don't get that in Rebirth. There is no redemption. Dyne goes down hating Barrett. Blaming him for all he stole. He doesn't kill himself in a selfish way via suicide and give Barrett the closure he sought. He instead tells Barrett he's a thief, stealing everything that Dyne had and deserved: his wife, his daughter, his arm. He didn't give Barrett forgiveness instead telling him to carry the weight of his decisions and actions.

It's, in a lot of ways, more dark than the original. There is no happy ending. The forgiveness Barrett sought and acquired in the original was never received and Dyne goes down in a hail of gunfire from Shinra whom he hated and subsequently dies literally in the arms of Barrett telling him in sot so many words, "Damn you for taking everything from me" before dying with the picture of the daughter he will never see again and the lifestream granting him the final moments of being with his wife once again.

I think for me personally, that subtle change meant so much more powerful emotions than giving Dyne the easy way out.

 

[Rachel]

People are pissed that 3+ years later, the Kingdom Hearts games are still on Epic Games Store and there's not a hint of a Steam release.

if only more did the same...

I haven't played this but I have a few thoughts. Don't read this if you don't want to read major spoilers, including the ending, especially about Aerith. (It's been out for over two weeks we can talk about it now in spoiler tags right)

Spoiler: Major Spoiler for Rebirth, FFXIII, FFXV, and FFXVI

I can't do this. I can't. I really wanted to play this. But from the things I have seen online. I was trying to search for the right word and I think mostly it's "cringe." I'm not sure how the Cloud actor is able to say some of these lines with a straight face. I don't know how the mocap actors did some of these scenes.

I also thought about the last several games. FFXIII. FFXV. FFXVI. Have you realized that they "kill" the main character at the end of each of these?

They only kill a main character if it's at the end when it doesn't "matter." There's no shock value in it anymore. And, there's a feeling like everything you just did, didn't matter.

I knew they wouldn't kill Aerith in a "clear" way. They don't do what they did in the 90s anymore. I know the whole point is they wanted to do something fresh, change up the original story. But it ended up being predictable. I also understand Aerith still showed up at the end of the original in a small way, so maybe they are trying to mirror the lifestream take of the original.

Also, haven't read at all what the general online take is but I think the third is going to be called Reunion. Edit: I am aware Crisis Core has this but I'm surprised people think that's a reason to stop them

 

[Jon]

Sure, any time with spoiler tags. I'm not there yet, still in Chapter 12, so I won't even quote this until I finish. I've done good avoiding spoilers so far. I'll come back to this after I finish.

 

[Raine]

if only more did the same...

Remained mad, or were/remained EGS exclusive? You know the KH fans are some vengeful little fucks, but watching nerd rage is so satisfying so either could fit!

Spoilahs

Spoiler: Ending spoilers for Rebirth + Others

"Infantilize" is the word I see coming up more and more, and it's... extraordinarily hard to disagree with? At least with the women characters. The lack of agency, some of the optional costumes particularly for Aerith, the nonsense gibberish talk and excessive moans and grunts (still!). It's... it's a lot.

And that on top of, of course, the dialogue is bad, the voyeuristic/Male Gaze camera is bad, the "jokes" are cringe, tonal whiplash is a motherfucker. I mean if you don't notice or don't care about all that and are just enjoying the game/series, that's fine - I'm not knocking you. But once you do notice, it is... so unbelievably impossible to not get constantly annoyed and pissed off about everything.

The things TD and I were discussing above in spoiler tags, when this was just a pre-release leak thread? The stuff that came out after, like the scene with Yuffie - oh no she's drowning, let's save her! But also more importantly I'm a 21-year old man gonna feel up an unconscious 16-year old girl that's maybe dead. Like, I don't really care that it's homage? It's creepy, it's stupid, it's off-putting, it doesn't really work in anime and it definitely doesn't work in a semi-realistic setting, stop doing it Square.


I didn't read a ton of the leaks 'cause I really only wanted to know about Aerith, but from what little I did read:

The multiverse shit is played out and boring. It's always what "Remake Project" was going to end up being if not a true remake; a quasi- or full-blown sequel, but... it just undermines everything? This is the same problem games like XIV have where nothing matters because there aren't really any stakes and infinite escalation and they make shit up as they go. And for what reason? Just to say it's different? That's pretty lame.

I quite enjoy the internet's "Regenesis" name theory though, even if Reunion makes the most thematic sense. Also fits because, uh... invariably you have to fully reintroduce and kill that fucker (Genesis lol) and Weiss (outside of his DLC boss fight) to finish the whole EC/Compilation story, right? Like that is the point, that Nomura and company can't let go of these dumb ideas from 15~20 years ago? Which is why they still want to do X-3, why KH4 is at least partially being marketed as Versus XIII between the KH3 Re:Mind DLC's secret ending and the Verum Rex stuff in general? It's... very weird.

Unless Regenesis is a fourth game and they're just stopping Reunion with the original ending + mending/restoration/protection of the barrier between universes? But I don't think sales trajectory will work out for that without potentially taking part of the company down with it.

 

[Rachel]

It was a barb at the fact that they still take a 30% cut. It's just depressing. Both that and the Apple Store etc. Yes they distribute and do marketing. I honestly can't imagine that as an indie dev, especially if your title gets pushed down the front page day one.

Spoiler: Continuation

Well here we are again Raine. lol. I feel like I am clearly not far down the rabbit hole about whatever you are mentioning. Tangent time? What's going on with KH4? Haha I have no idea what Verum Rex is, never played KH3...it's sad how I am not playing all these once beloved series anymore. I have to be super protective of my time, I can't play a game that is nostalgic but "just okay"--maybe this is why Square is seeing these numbers, partially anyway. They are playing up the nostalgia angle because what else can they do at this point, apparently. But we're all older now. Reminds me of that video I watched of that one YT channel you linked to, don't even remember the name but the person went into the problem of the claim that games "get better" or "pick up" after you've invested 60 hours or whatever.

Also jesus do not bring up X-3 in front of me. Jesus...please I am begging you

Also when future Jon reads this: it is depressing me when you mention GOTY. Like...this is where we are at D: I'm sorry...please no...

lol Regenesis is such a stupid name that it might be right, this is the same KH guy after all

Re Yuffie, is some of it because the age of consent is 16 there (last I heard? I dunno)

Oh man I just had an image of one of my sons still being awake and going downstairs and seeing me play one of the cringe scenes

Not something like FFXVI or even Red Dead...FFVII scenes

Been debating whether or not I will maybe just watch a Let's Play of this game? Haha actually maybe it could be fun to hate watch it together Raine, perhaps in movie format that YT often does. Maybe we could get a group together

 

[Raine]

It was a barb at the fact that they still take a 30% cut. It's just depressing. Both that and the Apple Store etc. Yes they distribute and do marketing. I honestly can't imagine that as an indie dev, especially if your title gets pushed down the front page day one.

Ah, yeah. Fair! I think they do ultimately benefit more from being on as many platforms as they possibly can though. Like if people are deadset against EGS (or Steam), being exclusively available there is $0 instead of -30% for them. Still sucks, but, yeah.

Spoiler: All of the above + KH3

Spoiler: KH3

Well here we are again Raine. lol. I feel like I am clearly not far down the rabbit hole about whatever you are mentioning. Tangent time? What's going on with KH4? Haha I have no idea what Verum Rex is, never played KH3...it's sad how I am not playing all these once beloved series anymore.

Wait, I never told you about this? Oh goodness, are you in for a trip. In KH3 when you first enter the Toy Story world (which is like the second or third world of the game) you're hit with this random, seemingly nonsensical cutscene/advertisement. It's for a game called "Verum Rex," which is... a video game, being released in the Toy Story world, that exists within Kingdom Hearts 3, that is a video game in our world, that is being heavily inspired by Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Because... Nomura™. Outside of this trailer and the fact that you can pilot the robots within the Toy Story and there's a minigame based on it, again using those robots, there's no actual point to any of it's not really mentioned again!




But then the Secret Ending for KH3 is this, which features that guy (whose name is Yozora) with zero further context:





HOWEVER.

Some months later a $30 DLC came out, including an Ultimate Boss and a Secret Ending. The boss is, of course, Yozora. And that looks like this, complete with confusing and convoluted ass pre-fight cutscene with horrible dialogue:




Beat him and you get the new Secret Ending.

And... I don't feel like I need to offer you, of all people, a single word of explanation and you'll immediately understand once it gets to the point:




And then... this is the announcement trailer for KH4, to complete the fuckery:

I have to be super protective of my time, I can't play a game that is nostalgic but "just okay"--maybe this is why Square is seeing these numbers, partially anyway. They are playing up the nostalgia angle because what else can they do at this point, apparently. But we're all older now. Reminds me of that video I watched of that one YT channel you linked to, don't even remember the name but the person went into the problem of the claim that games "get better" or "pick up" after you've invested 60 hours or whatever.

Steph Sterling, most likely! And yeah, it's an absurd argument. I'd argue nobody, even generally responsibility-free people, have time for that. Like "FF16 is honestly too easy, it gets same-y and boring" -> "Just beat the game once and then you can play the harder difficulty." ...Why is that a thing??

Something I considered too is... well, people with similar hobbies are likely to spend more time together, date each other, marry one another. Our household is -1 sale that Square could have relied on before, at best, because me and my partner aren't going to need two copies of any game - we're not going to concurrently play, we'll watch one another play. I imagine it's the same for you and Rick, and who knows how many other couples. So I do wonder how that's factored into some of their, uh, dubious decisions over the years.

Particularly since the fanbases for Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts aren't growing, they're shrinking. Since the releases are so far apart, the quality is all over the place, you can't really predict what platform(s) they'll release on, and sometimes even the genre is up for debate!

Also jesus do not bring up X-3 in front of me. Jesus...please I am begging you

I WOULD LOVE TO FORGET ABOUT IT MYSELF BUT THEY TORTURE ME?!

No really, as recently as December 2023 they were talking about it. But it's already March 2024 and we haven't seen or heard official word on the IX Remake, so... who even knows how far out these dumb ideas are. Plenty of time for someone to come to their senses and cancel the cursed thing!

Re Yuffie, is some of it because the age of consent is 16 there (last I heard? I dunno)

I think that's correct. Technically the country's consent age is like 13 or 14, but every individual providence has it set locally to 16. Something like that.

The ages are kind of arbitrary anyway, of course, and aren't necessarily that huge of a deal. The game itself, I don't think, really goes out of its way to tell and remind you that Cloud is 21 and Yuffie is 16, it's just "main character" and "woman with breasts" = "perv joke." And really it's the perv joke that's the issue, at least for me. Like I wanna stress I'm not a prude, but... somebody please explain to me how they thought that was a good idea. A good fit. Thematically consistent. It might be in-character for Yuffie, maybe, but is it in-character for Cloud? Isn't Cloud suffering from intense bouts of PTSD and dissociative episodes about that time?

Been debating whether or not I will maybe just watch a Let's Play of this game? Haha actually maybe it could be fun to hate watch it together Raine, perhaps in movie format that YT often does. Maybe we could get a group together

You say hate watch, but it might turn into an endurance test! Who can go the longest without getting irritated enough to pull the plug.

 

[Raine]

Spoiler: Sales stuff, no spoilers

Famitsu numbers are now out for Rebirth, and...

01./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy VII Remake # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2020.04.10} (¥8.980) - 702.853 / NEW
01./00. [PS5] Final Fantasy XVI # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2023.06.22} (¥9.000) - 336.027 / NEW
01./00. [PS5] Final Fantasy VII Rebirth – 262,656 / NEW

Week 2:
02./01. [PS5] Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Square Enix, 02/29/24) – 24,482 (287,138)




Word of mouth did nothing. Zero chance they aren't having all-hands meetings right now. Gonna get a lot worse when they see the XIV-on-Xbox attach rate followed by the drop Dawntrail will see relative Endwalker.

NA and EU gotta carry that shit hard, regardless.

 

[The Eye in the Sky!]

I decided before the game came out that I wasn't playing through this. I have a coworker that is playing it right now and he is giving me his opinion daily. I've already watched all the cutscenes/story sequences so I know how everything about it. I've seen a variety of gameplay videos, mini games, and relevant videos to see what the game offers.

I never finished Remake, I felt they added too much fluff and side content that bloated the experience - and by all accounts its even bigger this time around. I don't like when games artificially make themselves longer.

Spoiler: Major end spoilers - do not click if you are still playing

I hate the new twists with the alternate realities. It feels like they are trying to go multi-verse on us and have a reason to keep Aerith in the game throughout. I told the kid I work with that they are not going to retcon her death, but they are going to make a way for her to appear in the game until the end. This is sort of how I expected it to happen, though I referred to her as a Force Ghost when explaining it.

I also really hate how they didn't give us a true high-def murder scene. Part of what makes Sephiroth so famous is that brutal murder. The impact felt so lost in the new one. Feels like they tried to soften the blow. I'm not a big fan of violence and I am queasy with blood, but I feel like a more visceral stabbing is appropriate there. IF 13 YEAR OLD ME HAD TO BE DEVASTATED BY IT, THE NEW GENERATION SHOULD BE TOO!

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Spoiler: Still major ass spoilers don't click

Don't really agree at all re: the death, despite my earlier opinions regarding how Dyne was handled. I think this was the absolute biggest punch to the gut they could have delivered in 2024 in providing that brief moment of hope that the death had been avoided only for fate and reality to reassert itself over the situation, no visceral stabbing required. Even with a tremendous sense of foreboding coming in from the preceding scenes in mind, I went into the Forgotten Capital thinking "nah, no matter what happens here I don't think it's gonna get me" only to immediately break down once I realized what was happening, enhanced further by every party member except Cloud going into the Jenova fight with a full Limit bar (and then the followups as things progressed from there.

Do agree about the fluff and minigames tho.

Anyway, now that I beat the game I'm mostly happy with it. Cosmo Canyon was a great great rebound from my annoyances over the Corel Prison stuff, but then the final dungeon ended up going on way too long. There's definitely Issues with the game, though some will amount to taste (I don't have time for all this side shit anymore, but I have friends who just absolutely devoured it). I'll look forward to the next part.

 

[Jon]

So I completed the game finally. 117.5 hours it took to do everything but platinum it. I'll check over the trophies I missed before deciding if I'll go for that.

I read through the spoilers here, but I'm not gonna take the time to respond to them all tonight, will address them once I've had time to truly compile my thoughts.

The one thing I want to address, and I won't spoiler this because I'm not going to reveal anything, but to Rachel's future Jon: Sadly, story elements aside, this should easily win GOTY. Take out the emotion from knowing the original game and look at this as if it were a stand alone game from now. Graphics are a 10/10 as usual with FF. The story (again, ignoring you know the original) is a 10/10. Combat is a 10/10. Length of the game is a 10/10. Gameplay is a 10/10. There really are few flaws to the game. The only bug I experienced is some scenes where the background music never lowered and played over the spoken dialogue.

In terms of some other things in spoiler tags, I'll address them when I haven't just burned nearly 120 hours into the game lol. At the height of the emotions, is probably the worst time to respond.

 

[Benzine]

i've not actually read this thread due to spoilers but i'm hoping you can tell me if you think this is worth a buy

 

[Raine]

i've not actually read this thread due to spoilers but i'm hoping you can tell me if you think this is worth a buy

I have yet to see a single person think that Rebirth isn't better than Remake on every front. So if you liked Remake, or could at least tolerate the padding, then Rebirth is an easy buy.

And of course if you haven't played Remake yet, start there!