U.S.A. Boeing Thread

[Rachel]

I've been reading about the Boeing news in passing and thought it's about time to get a thread going.

TLDR: Boeing's reputation is collapsing as news story after news story is coming out about various faulty parts and emergency landings. Apparently the company pivoted from top rated safety procedures to profits, and some of their own engineers have said they would not fly on their planes.

Also, a whistleblower was found dead of apparent suicide, who earlier said if he is found dead, "it's not suicide."

This is really ramping up on the Congress/Senate level, but we'll see what actually happens...

PS - also was wondering, have we ever had a pilot or flight attendant as an active member that we know about?

 

[Quagmire]

As someone scared of flying this just adds to my fears

 

[Gloom-is-good]

I thought about going into the flight attendant career for the travel opportunities but turns out I don't meet the height requirement..

As someone who takes half a dozen flights annually, I am getting a little concerned not from a "might crash" standpoint but from a "I have very limited PTO and having to deal with travel disruptions suck" perspective. Flying isn't cheap to begin with, you know?

 

[Rachel]

??? I had no idea there's height requirements for flight attendants

Also, since making this thread I found out a few sites like Kayak have added a plane type filter...they must be following what the market wants...

 

[Crystal]

??? I had no idea there's height requirements for flight attendants

Also, since making this thread I found out a few sites like Kayak have added a plane type filter...they must be following what the market wants...

It could be, but there are also many av geeks who pick flights based on the aircraft they want to fly on. As ridiculous as it sounds, yt is full of them, like Noel Phillips. He constantly flies on planes and airlines looking for specific types.

 

[Gloom-is-good]

It could be, but there are also many av geeks who pick flights based on the aircraft they want to fly on. As ridiculous as it sounds, yt is full of them, like Noel Phillips. He constantly flies on planes and airlines looking for specific types.

One of my cousins really wants to fly the Hello Kitty airplane to/from Asia. I gotta say, I can't blame her.

 

[Crystal]

One of my cousins really wants to fly the Hello Kitty airplane to/from Asia. I gotta say, I can't blame her.

I didn't know there was one, and now so do I, lol

 

[VashTheStampede]

Also, a whistleblower was found dead of apparent suicide, who earlier said if he is found dead, "it's not suicide."

Sorry @An Obligatory Name Change, but this might be my kind of thread.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Sorry @An Obligatory Name Change, but this might be my kind of thread.

It's all good. A thread that last week tonight did as well is fine.

 

[shortkut]

It's all good. A thread that last week tonight did as well is fine.

@VashTheStampede so it seems any conspiracy is okay as long as John Oliver covers it

 

[VashTheStampede]

I gotta get that dude's personal email, I've got some segments to pitch.

 

[dimmerwit]

I'm a private pilot. I did consider a career in it but I'm not as interested in the big jets to be honest.

Boeing are just a disaster. They put bean counters in charge after the merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997 and their standards have been slipping ever since. They offloaded far too much of production with far too little oversight, treated their own skilled professionals with enough contempt that they simply went elsewhere and cultivated an incestuous relationship with the FAA which led to woefully inadequate oversight. No wonder they forgot to make the planes fly or the doors close.

One of my cousins really wants to fly the Hello Kitty airplane to/from Asia. I gotta say, I can't blame her.

Fly the Hello Kitty plane to Kansai, take the Hello Kitty Haruka to Shin-Osaka and then the Hello Kitty Shinkansen out west. Or don't, if you want to retain some semblance of sanity.

 

[Mark]

??? I had no idea there's height requirements for flight attendants

That could be because of the seats they’re assigned, or the equipment they’d be required to access in an emergency. We don’t need @Gloom-is-good on GWF Airways reaching for the defibrillator on the top shelf if one of us is going out. you know?

 

[VashTheStampede]

 

[Gloom-is-good]

I didn't know there was one, and now so do I, lol

If I earn enough miles, I'll make it happen

That could be because of the seats they’re assigned, or the equipment they’d be required to access in an emergency. We don’t need @Gloom-is-good on GWF Airways reaching for the defibrillator on the top shelf if one of us is going out. you know?

Sir you are under the assumption that I am too short but I assure you that I am actually a giant and am just too tall to be on a plane..

 

[Crystal]

If I earn enough miles, I'll make it happen

Sir you are under the assumption that I am too short but I assure you that I am actually a giant and am just too tall to be on a plane..

Those are some huge raccoons!

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Those are some huge raccoons!

Nah she's just doubled the number of racoons and got a larger trenchcoat

 

[Crystal]

Nah she's just doubled the number of racoons and got a larger trenchcoat

5 raccoons...that's a lot more food!

 

[Webster]

Boeing are just a disaster. They put bean counters in charge after the merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997 and their standards have been slipping ever since. They offloaded far too much of production with far too little oversight, treated their own skilled professionals with enough contempt that they simply went elsewhere and cultivated an incestuous relationship with the FAA which led to woefully inadequate oversight. No wonder they forgot to make the planes fly or the doors close.

 

[Smacktard]

I'm so cynical that I expect these negative news stories about Boeing to continue as the stock craters, until, all of a sudden, people remember that Boeing is a key manufacturer in the US and crucial to the US Defense Industry and economic policy, and the negative press all disappears overnight, and Boeing gets away with a slap on the wrist, and the stock price begins to rise again after all the rich people have scared the poors into selling whatever shares they have, exactly like what happened last time Boeing fucked up.

 

[VashTheStampede]

 

[Rachel]

Here is an article about the whistle-blower if anyone wants to read more:

The last days of the Boeing whistleblower

John Barnett devoted 25 years to make Boeing airplanes safer. But the last few years of his life were spent fighting his former employer.

fortune.com

Questions about his suicide aside, the tale he began to weave was pretty damning and makes me really mad. This is definitely a company you don't want to cut corners or stifle people raising problems. Just...wow. I wish company C-suites were criminally prosecuted way more often.

But what happens now? Anything? Is Boeing too big to fail? Too much in bed with Washington? Too much part of our national security?

United is scrambling for Airbus jets as it looks to replace Boeing 737 Max 10 orders that are at least 5 years behind schedule

Delays in certifying Boeing’s 737 Max 10 aircraft have jeopardized growth plans at United, which was slated to be the first major customer for the biggest 737 variant.

fortune.com

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/seat-belt-saved-passengers-life-on-boeing-737-max-that-suffered-midair-blowout-new-lawsuit-claims-1e01bc59

Investigators: Boeing Overwrote Security Footage Related to Jet Door That Blew Out

The aircraft manufacturer is facing increased scrutiny after a series of safety issues with its planes.

gizmodo.com

"To date, we still do not know who performed the work to open, reinstall, and close the door plug on the accident aircraft," Homendy wrote in a letter to the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee. "Boeing has informed us that they are unable to find the records documenting this work. A verbal request was made by our investigators for security camera footage to help obtain this information; however, they were informed the footage was overwritten. The absence of those records will complicate the NTSB's investigation moving forward."

Boeing 737 Max engine issue will take up to a year to fix, company tells lawmakers

Boeing said its planned fix for an engine issue on all 737 Max jets will delay certification of the 737 Max 7 and Max 10 airliners.

www.cbsnews.com

A year to fix! Somehow I doubt that number.

 

[Mark]

Here is an article about the whistle-blower if anyone wants to read more:

The last days of the Boeing whistleblower

John Barnett devoted 25 years to make Boeing airplanes safer. But the last few years of his life were spent fighting his former employer.

fortune.com

Questions about his suicide aside, the tale he began to weave was pretty damning and makes me really mad. This is definitely a company you don't want to cut corners or stifle people raising problems. Just...wow. I wish company C-suites were criminally prosecuted way more often.

But what happens now? Anything? Is Boeing too big to fail? Too much in bed with Washington? Too much part of our national security?

Do you remember the Bridgestone/Firestone scandal back when we were all just becoming old enough to get our learner’s permits? Similar story… because they were one of the largest fleet tire providers to government agencies on a local and federal level, they were getting away with cutting all kinds of corners at the detriment of their consumers.

The federal government has clearly learned nothing, especially considering this isn’t the first or second time they’ve had to meddle in the affairs of the airline industry.

United is scrambling for Airbus jets as it looks to replace Boeing 737 Max 10 orders that are at least 5 years behind schedule

Delays in certifying Boeing’s 737 Max 10 aircraft have jeopardized growth plans at United, which was slated to be the first major customer for the biggest 737 variant.

fortune.com

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/seat-belt-saved-passengers-life-on-boeing-737-max-that-suffered-midair-blowout-new-lawsuit-claims-1e01bc59

Investigators: Boeing Overwrote Security Footage Related to Jet Door That Blew Out

The aircraft manufacturer is facing increased scrutiny after a series of safety issues with its planes.

gizmodo.com

"To date, we still do not know who performed the work to open, reinstall, and close the door plug on the accident aircraft," Homendy wrote in a letter to the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee. "Boeing has informed us that they are unable to find the records documenting this work. A verbal request was made by our investigators for security camera footage to help obtain this information; however, they were informed the footage was overwritten. The absence of those records will complicate the NTSB's investigation moving forward."

Boeing 737 Max engine issue will take up to a year to fix, company tells lawmakers

Boeing said its planned fix for an engine issue on all 737 Max jets will delay certification of the 737 Max 7 and Max 10 airliners.

www.cbsnews.com

A year to fix! Somehow I doubt that number.

When I was managing a medium sized pool of repo agents with a single driver operated vehicle fleet, each driver signed out their inspection sheet every start of shift and end of shift. They were responsible for checking tire pressure, inspecting and reporting punctures, fluid levels, high-wear part inspections (like brake pads, wiper blades, etc.), incidental damage (road wear), criminal damage (bullet holes, dents), and operational damage nightly. Weekly, my on-site mechanic would run an operational inspection. Monthly, each vehicle was sent for maintenance. Quarterly, each vehicle was sent for less frequent maintenance. Each time fuel was added, washer fluid was topped off, or a tire was plugged was accounted for. If the driver didn’t adhere to those standards, they were suspended without pay and agreed to those terms in their contract because they acknowledged that willful or unintended negligence can cause injury to self or others.

Moral of the story? If you can convince a bunch of people like that to adhere to a system, there’s no excuse that a multi billion dollar industry can’t have better and stricter standards to adhere to. The problem is oversight and enforcement. It’s just easier not to.

 

[VashTheStampede]

 

[MC74]

View attachment 12087

Pretty much, reminds me of what happened to an engineer back in the day that blew the whistle on an aerospace company following a tragic mishap with a plane that went down because of a jack screw he reported was damaged, but the company threw his report in the shredder.

He did the right thing in exposing those fucks, but committed career suicide in the process. Never worked another day in his life.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

View attachment 12087

Are you gonna hurt whistleblowers?

 

[shortkut]

 

[Kat]

Pretty much, reminds me of what happened to an engineer back in the day that blew the whistle on an aerospace company following a tragic mishap with a plane that went down because of a jack screw he reported was damaged, but the company threw his report in the shredder.

He did the right thing in exposing those fucks, but committed career suicide in the process. Never worked another day in his life.

That's such bullshit. If your company sincerely takes safety seriously, then you should jump at the chance to hire a guy like that. And since nobody did, I can only deduce that no such company existed. =\

 

[Mark]

Pretty much, reminds me of what happened to an engineer back in the day that blew the whistle on an aerospace company following a tragic mishap with a plane that went down because of a jack screw he reported was damaged, but the company threw his report in the shredder.

He did the right thing in exposing those fucks, but committed career suicide in the process. Never worked another day in his life.

That wouldn’t happen to be Northrop Grumman, would it? I heard a vague story about that place a while back ago. I know they’re not specifically aerospace, but…

 

[MC74]

That's such bullshit. If your company sincerely takes safety seriously, then you should jump at the chance to hire a guy like that. And since nobody did, I can only deduce that no such company existed. =\

The world of business is a cutthroat one. The fact the guy never worked another job in his life tells you that the majority of companies don't value the well-being of others. Only money & obedience.

That wouldn’t happen to be Northrop Grumman, would it? I heard a vague story about that place a while back ago. I know they’re not specifically aerospace, but…

Nope, it was Air Alaska IIRC. Flight 261 to be exact.

 

[Kat]

Nope, it was Air Alaska IIRC. Flight 261 to be exact.

The aerospace company was Alaska Airlines?! I'm flying them tomorrow, agh. I had no idea they had been in trouble for that sort of thing.

Here's the bit about the whistleblower from Wikipedia, if anybody else is interested:

Spoiler

In 1998, an Alaska Airlines mechanic named John Liotine, who worked in the Alaska Airlines maintenance center in Oakland, California, told the FAA that supervisors were approving records of maintenance that they were not allowed to approve or that indicated work had been completed when, in fact, it had not. Liotine began working with federal investigators by secretly audio recording his supervisors. On December 22, 1998, federal authorities raided an Alaska Airlines property and seized maintenance records. In August 1999, Alaska Airlines put Liotine on paid leave,[30] and in 2000, Liotine filed a libel suit against the airline. The crash of AS261 became a part of the federal investigation against Alaska Airlines, because, in 1997, Liotine had recommended that the jackscrew and gimbal nut of the accident aircraft be replaced, but had been overruled by another supervisor.[31] In December 2001, federal prosecutors stated that they were not going to file criminal charges against Alaska Airlines. Around that time, Alaska Airlines agreed to settle the libel suit by paying about $500,000; as part of the settlement, Liotine resigned.[30]

So basically the same nonsense Boeing was pulling and got away with until it caused a serious incident. And they're not even a low cost airline.

 

[MC74]

The aerospace company was Alaska Airlines?! I'm flying them tomorrow, agh. I had no idea they had been in trouble for that sort of thing.

Yep, this tragedy happened in 2000. Everyone on board that flight was killed because of a company's negligence for public safety in favor of cutting corners.

So basically the same nonsense Boeing was pulling and got away with until it caused a serious incident. And they're not even a low cost airline.

Yep, and the one who got punished for it was Liotine. Sure, he got the settlement, but being blacklisted and told he'd never work another day in his life is not right. Guy was only doing his job right, and I can only imagine how horrible it must've to have a decision overruled like that, and end up costing the lives of everyone on that plane he inspected.

 

[Kat]

Yep, and the one who got punished for it was Liotine. Sure, he got the settlement, but being blacklisted and told he'd never work another day in his life is not right. Guy was only doing his job right, and I can only imagine how horrible it must've to have a decision overruled like that, and end up costing the lives of everyone on that plane he inspected.

Agreed, and he probably saved them in the long run. Imagine if he hadn't reported it, and it happened again and again. There are lots of airlines to choose from, and unsafe ones are going to lose business in the long run. Ugh.

He got close to a million bucks as a settlement, so hopefully he invested that well and did okay.

 

[Quagmire]

 

[Kat]

Yeaaaah the dead whistle blower thing is not a good look. But will any consequences happen? Doubtful.

 

[Quagmire]

Yeaaaah the dead whistle blower thing is not a good look. But will any consequences happen? Doubtful.

Sadly I agree, nothing is likely to happen.