Stick drift…

[Mark]

Why is it that I could drop a DualShock 1 down a flight of hardwood stairs and plug it back in and have no issues… yet I’ve heard from people that everything from the Switch to the newest X-Box and PlayStation all have issues with it? I haven’t went to the current gen myself yet, but I’ve already sent a few PS4 controllers to hell.

 

[Crystal]

I suppose the technology has become more advanced, more prone to failure. That'd be my guess. Before everything was simple, easy and durable. Not anymore!

 

[Raine]

I never actually owned an original DualShock, but I've had two or three DS2s over the years that have developed drift/ghosting. It's been a constant issue with Sony's controllers. We don't own too many DS4s and have two that got hit. I had thought it was common knowledge, but all the commotion about the Switch having drift makes me question how widespread it is. ...Or just says a lot about how bad the Switch drift is. Only have one pair of controllers for that and no drift, thankully.

I actually haven't had an Xbox 360 controller develop drift, and I've beaten a good number of them up. The wired X360 controllers suck though; very cheap wires that are easily prone to loosening/breaking right where the wire meets the controller. And the rubber on the analogue sticks doesn't last too long before wearing out. Have two Xbone controllers with drift, both of which are limited edition ones (Cyberpunk and Halo) for extra annoyance.

No real idea why build quality has gone to shit. Mostly still just being unreasonably mad that controllers used to cost like $25 and now routinely go for twice that.

 

[Mark]

I suppose the technology has become more advanced, more prone to failure. That'd be my guess. Before everything was simple, easy and durable. Not anymore!

See… I’m one of those dickheads that just thinks everything is a part of planned obsolescence, that’s why I posted this, I wanna see how many other people think with their tin foil on.

I never actually owned an original DualShock, but I've had two or three DS2s over the years that have developed drift/ghosting. It's been a constant issue with Sony's controllers. We don't own too many DS4s and have two that got hit. I had thought it was common knowledge, but all the commotion about the Switch having drift makes me question how widespread it is. ...Or just says a lot about how bad the Switch drift is. Only have one pair of controllers for that and no drift, thankully.

I actually haven't had an Xbox 360 controller develop drift, and I've beaten a good number of them up. The wired X360 controllers suck though; very cheap wires that are easily prone to loosening/breaking right where the wire meets the controller. And the rubber on the analogue sticks doesn't last too long before wearing out. Have two Xbone controllers with drift, both of which are limited edition ones (Cyberpunk and Halo) for extra annoyance.

No real idea why build quality has gone to shit. Mostly still just being unreasonably mad that controllers used to cost like $25 and now routinely go for twice that.

I owned ONE DS1, and that was the one I bought to replace my original PSX controller because the shoulder buttons were getting wedged in the housing… likely from a fall. It’s STILL in a box with the PSX, and the analog sticks have more tension than it’s much younger PS3 sibling sitting in the same box. I will readily admit that younger me abused the shit out of my controllers, so the fact that it’s still kicking and I faced complications within a week with my DS4 or SixAxis or whatever the PS4 controller is called is what infuriated me… because I KNOW I take better care of my stuff these days. As far as the rubber coming off of the 360 sticks… my old lady made my PS4 analog stick look like she chewed on it because of her nails, so that’s not just exclusive to Microsoft.

As far as Microsoft goes… I remember my little brother going through 360 controllers like nobody’s business. If it wasn’t stick drift, it was most certainly the battery pack falling out on its own after enough times swapping them out to recharge.

My buddies with the Switch both reported issues within a few weeks of the new Zelda game coming out, so maybe they just played a little too hard?

 

[Crystal]

See… I’m one of those dickheads that just thinks everything is a part of planned obsolescence, that’s why I posted this, I wanna see how many other people think with their tin foil on.

Oh planned obsolescence is definitely real, things are designed to wear down and break so much more these days.

 

[Raine]

Planned obsolescence is absolutely a thing, and totally sucks. Also flies in the face of the aforementioned price jacking because, ostensibly, the solution over time is either that companies increase prices to maintain margins or cut corners everywhere possible to reduce costs.

Never once works that way, but y'know! Yay corporate greed and late-stage capitalism and all that jazz.

I will readily admit that younger me abused the shit out of my controllers

Hah, indeed. But keep in mind as well that games actually encouraged us beating the shit out our controllers. And our hands. Whether it was Mario Party shenanigans or all those really dumb "violently shake the control stick to break free from being frozen/bound," they took a lot of abuse.

Which, I mean I've been kind of absent on the new games front for an entire console generation now, but nothing I've picked up over the last year-ish and nothing I've seen in various trailers and gameplay clips indicates that's become a widespread thing again. Thankfully. So even less excuse for these controllers to be plagued with issues.

As far as the rubber coming off of the 360 sticks… my old lady made my PS4 analog stick look like she chewed on it because of her nails, so that’s not just exclusive to Microsoft.

Oh yeah, that'll fuck it up with the quickness too. I personally can't have my thumbnails long while playing; they're always getting wedged, or ground, or just generally throwing me off. Haven't quite figured out a way to just use the digit's pad without completely changing up how I hold controllers. Certainly ain't gonna be able to MonHun crab claw that shit.

 

[the_promised_land]

I’ve (touch wood) only experienced it with one dual shock 4

 

[Leandros?]

I dunno how the PS1 worked, maybe the analog signal of the stick was sent through the cable, maybe the value was digitised before the cable. I can imagine a console to be made with more expensive parts. What I do know is the amount of values analog sticks can take has increased a couple of bits (maybe even doubled) so you need to increase your dead zone (values of X and y where it's assumed the stick is centered) accordingly. The potentiometers in analog sticks probably have some hysteresis in them too (meaning moving one way and back won't give the same values at the same position), and obviously the plastics can only handle so many manipulations before changing perceptibly for the sensor. Same for the springs. It should all be super easy to calibrate though, and it wouldn't surprise me if not bothering to do it because of pressure to sell more controllers made the engineers do a bad thing.

 

[Hefty88]

Funny enough, I’ve only ever had one co troller in my lifetime that has gotten stuck drift and it was that Switch Pro controller you referred to. I guess I’ve just gotten lucky. But I have also noticed over the years that I’m, for some reason super gentle with moving the sticks. Might be a byproduct of always using the highest camera sensitivity in games.

 

[Ravenfreak]

I purchased a refurbished Xbox One day one edition from Microsoft's store back in 2016 and the damn controller had stick drift. I eventually sold that console and told V-Stock that it had stick drift but they didn't mind lol. They still took the controller with the console. I have a Xbox One S now that I got brand new back in 2018 with no issues. I haven't had any issues with my Switch joycons, but I prefer to use my third party pro controller on my Switch docked since I'm not a fan of the sticks on the Joycons.

 

[Raine]

So apparently there are companies working to address this.

Article:

What you need to know

• The GameSir G7 SE Controller is a licensed Xbox controller featuring Hall Effect sticks, which are non-contact magnetic sensors that prevent stick drift and wear down.
• The controller is compatible with Xbox Series X|S, Xbox One, and Windows 10/11, and is available for purchase for $44.99/£49.99/€59.99.
• This is the first controller for the Xbox Series X|S that features Hall Effect sticks.

GameSir, a leading provider of high-quality and affordable gaming peripherals, has just released the G7 SE wired controller for Xbox, the first Xbox controller to feature Hall Effect sticks.

The G7 SE wired controller promises to deliver unparalleled precision, durability, and customization at a value-driven price point, now at a special introductory price of $44.99.

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/gamesir-launches-the-first-xbox-controller-with-hall-effect-sticks

It's wired which is a bit of a dealbreaker - unless, like me, your PC's bluetooth is fucky and you have to keep a USB cable connected anyway - but will be interesting to see if this kind of thing makes it into the first-party controllers for the next generation.

 

[Ben]

IGN: The Real Science Behind Controller Drift

Googling got me to this article on IGN, which explains it pretty well.

Analog sticks have always worked by way of a potentiometer, a little piece that slides a "wiper" across a contact and the varying voltage determines the position of the stick. That wiper/contact point can get dirty over time, or just wear out mechanically (anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 cycles).

The older sticks weren't as sensitive so would have had a wider range for what was considered each X or Y coordinate, meaning any small change in the conductivity of the contact didn't affect overall performance much. With the newer sticks that are way more sensitive, any small change in the conductivity will correlate to some skewed position tracking.

So, I think it's a result of mechanical parts by their nature having a finite lifespan, plus their leaning towards cheaper parts to cut cost, as well as the sensitivity of the components being much greater than 20 years ago.

Either way it's stupid and I'd be all for a new method like the one Warp posted using magnets. Things like that seem like they wouldn't wear out nearly as fast, and might be less prone to failing from dust, etc.

 

[Leandros?]

Hall effect (magnetic field) sensors are just as prone to hysteresis as other devices, so I wonder if they've managed to minimise that to a usable degree. There's no physical contacts beyond the mechanical movement of the stick though so who knows.

 

[Jawneh]

Hall effect (magnetic field) sensors are just as prone to hysteresis as other devices, so I wonder if they've managed to minimise that to a usable degree. There's no physical contacts beyond the mechanical movement of the stick though so who knows.

Oh yeah. Anyone who owned an N64 before knows how horrible a sloppy floppy stick can be. But when it works it works great.

Potentiometer and hall effect sticks both decay at different ways and rates. I would say hall effect ones should last longer these days though with better materials and dust/hair/filth prevention from getting into in and under the stick. But lets say both of them are used the same amount and wear out at a similar rate, the potentiometer one would have drift into some direction and the hall effect one would have a sloppy "dead zone". Technically, the hall effect ones could still be calibrated to be precise even with the slop, as the sensors themselves aren't damaged, but that's a software thing and not all companies allow you to do that in general (looking at you Microsoft).

But even with drift, replacing sticks aren't really that bad if you are at least okay with using a small screwdriver. I've replaced a joycon stick twice now and xbox controller stick once. Thanks to all the tear down videos and guide videos in general for stick replacement, it's super convenient and will save you upwards of 30 bucks depending on your controller.

 

[Ben]

Oh yeah. Anyone who owned an N64 before knows how horrible a sloppy floppy stick can be. But when it works it works great.

Potentiometer and hall effect sticks both decay at different ways and rates. I would say hall effect ones should last longer these days though with better materials and dust/hair/filth prevention from getting into in and under the stick. But lets say both of them are used the same amount and wear out at a similar rate, the potentiometer one would have drift into some direction and the hall effect one would have a sloppy "dead zone". Technically, the hall effect ones could still be calibrated to be precise even with the slop, as the sensors themselves aren't damaged, but that's a software thing and not all companies allow you to do that in general (looking at you Microsoft).

But even with drift, replacing sticks aren't really that bad if you are at least okay with using a small screwdriver. I've replaced a joycon stick twice now and xbox controller stick once. Thanks to all the tear down videos and guide videos in general for stick replacement, it's super convenient and will save you upwards of 30 bucks depending on your controller.

I replaced the sticks in a set of joycon once. It wasn't too bad, although the replacements didn't have NFC compatibility so I couldn't scan Amiibo on those anymore. But those ones also eventually started drifting to where I just bought a new set anyway. I have 2 DualSense controllers that the left stick drifts sideways on, but got 2 new ones as a gift anyway so never tried to repair them.

Honestly stripping them down and replacing the parts is pretty fun. I had an old Street Fighter PS4 arcade stick that I purchased an after-market stick and buttons for. At least in that scenario, you really can notice the difference in the cheap components they ship with and something of even a medium quality.

 

[Jawneh]

Honestly stripping them down and replacing the parts is pretty fun. I had an old Street Fighter PS4 arcade stick that I purchased an after-market stick and buttons for. At least in that scenario, you really can notice the difference in the cheap components they ship with and something of even a medium quality.

I could def tell the difference between all the replacement sticks I got. They work pretty much the same and have about the same smoothness and resistance, but boy is the rubber on top a whole lot different. Took me a long while to adjust to that as it just felt bad and wrong. Granted, I bought a pack of 4 joycon sticks for like $15, so I can't except super good quality with that. Still working though.

 

[Mark]

I replaced the sticks in a set of joycon once. It wasn't too bad, although the replacements didn't have NFC compatibility so I couldn't scan Amiibo on those anymore. But those ones also eventually started drifting to where I just bought a new set anyway. I have 2 DualSense controllers that the left stick drifts sideways on, but got 2 new ones as a gift anyway so never tried to repair them.

I tried looking into it one day for my PS4 for a few minutes, and kept on seeing ones that required soldering. I have no clue where mine went. I was hoping it would be as simple as just taking it apart, unplugging the old ones, plugging in the new ones, and putting it all back together. I can manage that. I don’t trust myself not to drip hot solder on the wrong component and fuck something up.

Honestly stripping them down and replacing the parts is pretty fun. I had an old Street Fighter PS4 arcade stick that I purchased an after-market stick and buttons for. At least in that scenario, you really can notice the difference in the cheap components they ship with and something of even a medium quality.

I like doing that stuff, too, but… as I said above… I’m concerned about making matters worse.

 

[Leandros?]

I tried looking into it one day for my PS4 for a few minutes, and kept on seeing ones that required soldering. I have no clue where mine went. I was hoping it would be as simple as just taking it apart, unplugging the old ones, plugging in the new ones, and putting it all back together. I can manage that. I don’t trust myself not to drip hot solder on the wrong component and fuck something up.



I like doing that stuff, too, but… as I said above… I’m concerned about making matters worse.

You are way overestimating the difficulty of soldering. Unless you put too much on the iron it will happily stick to the tip until you touch a soldering pad/metal/more solder.

 

[Mark]

You are way overestimating the difficulty of soldering. Unless you put too much on the iron it will happily stick to the tip until you touch a soldering pad/metal/more solder.

Nah, I just don’t have one with a small enough tip. It’s an older one where it only had two with it, a point and a flat edge. From memory, I don’t think either are small enough to safely hit what I saw in the video without risk.

 

[Tirith]

I've got a soldering iron or three. I'll butcher the xbox controller I have with the worst drift as a... Uh... Experimental project.

My joy cons are holding up well, as well as my PS4 and 5 controllers. Xbox ones seem to go the quickest in my experience.

 

[Leandros?]

Nah, I just don’t have one with a small enough tip. It’s an older one where it only had two with it, a point and a flat edge. From memory, I don’t think either are small enough to safely hit what I saw in the video without risk.

Fair enough. You could maybe walk into a phone repair shop with all the stuff and see if they can help out with a hot air gun for like 5 bucks, or let you work the station if they're not doing anything. Decent variable temperature soldering irons with standardised tips are also pretty cheap nowadays, you can probably get something from your favourite chinese webshop for 5-15 bucks.

 

[Mark]

Fair enough. You could maybe walk into a phone repair shop with all the stuff and see if they can help out with a hot air gun for like 5 bucks, or let you work the station if they're not doing anything. Decent variable temperature soldering irons with standardised tips are also pretty cheap nowadays, you can probably get something from your favourite chinese webshop for 5-15 bucks.

Maaan, I’ve been needing a soldering iron for one of my guitars for 2 years now, and I ALWAYS forget to get one. I’m terrible at remembering things like that. My old one is on its last leg wherever it is, because I’ve used it since I was a teenager.

 

[Kat]

I've had a bunch of problems with my Switch controllers drifting, but calibrating them has always fixed it for me. I believe Nintendo will fix them for free if that doesn't work. I've never had it happen on controllers for any other system.

And the rubber on the analogue sticks doesn't last too long before wearing out.

I had to buy covers for all my PS4 controllers because the rubber kept wearing out on all the sticks. The PS5 ones seem to be holding up better so far at least. I can't tell a difference between the rubber on the one I use the most and the backup one that mostly sits in a drawer, even though it's seen heavy use for a couple of years now.

I tried looking into it one day for my PS4 for a few minutes, and kept on seeing ones that required soldering.

I took one of my PS4 controllers apart because one of the buttons was sticking and I couldn't get it back together. It feels like it requires a minimum of three hands. It's still sitting in parts in a bag somewhere. I'm hopeless when it comes to hardware, though.

 

[Quagmire]

I have no issues with either of my ps4 controllers

 

[Smacktard]

Switch:
Stick drift killed like 3 sets of my joycons. I'm almost positive they fixed the issue though because I haven't had a single drift in about 3 years now.

PS3:
Man, these controllers suck. The sticks feel awful and your thumbs can mash together if you point them both inwards. Anyway, I've had bad drift with these guys -- and it's hard to find new ones for sale at a decent price.

PS4:
Lots of stick drift with these too. Also you have to be careful ordering replacements on Amazon -- I think I ordered a couple of Chinese reproductions. One I got feels different, and the X button sticks sometimes.

 

[Mark]

I took one of my PS4 controllers apart because one of the buttons was sticking and I couldn't get it back together. It feels like it requires a minimum of three hands. It's still sitting in parts in a bag somewhere. I'm hopeless when it comes to hardware, though.

That’s another thing… my hands don’t exactly do delicate work like PS controller surgery. I can barely even use my nails to disconnect the battery for example.

 

[Kat]

PS4:
Lots of stick drift with these too. Also you have to be careful ordering replacements on Amazon -- I think I ordered a couple of Chinese reproductions. One I got feels different, and the X button sticks sometimes.

I believe it. There are lots of counterfeits of most things on Amazon. The whole way that Amazon fulfilled orders work means you have no idea which seller your product is coming from. Amazon just tosses them all in a bin together and grabs one randomly to fill orders. You should never buy anything where the quality really matters to you off Amazon.

There's even stuff like counterfeit GFCI outlets on Amazon. They're the same price and look the same as the real ones, but they won't work correctly. You do have to be careful buying stuff from there. It's as trustworthy as eBay at this point IMO.

 

[TD]

PS5 controllers are by far the worst experience I've had. I've never had issues with bad stick drift in previous gens, both of my PS5 controllers ended up with bad stick drift in less than a year.

On the plus, they're covered by warranty due to it being less than a year but they don't cover shipping so that's a bit of a pain in the ass.

 

[Pun Damage]

Before I got my XB1, the controllers I would buy would last until they fell apart. I've had to replace my controllers due to stick drift three times in the last year, simply because there are no reputable repair shops in the area, I don't have the money to send them to Microsoft, and I don't have confidence in repairing them myself.

 

[Raine]

Pretty sure Microsoft bungled something during their many revisions. As mentioned previously in the thread we've got 2 LE controllers with drift, but I've been using one exclusively with FF14 for ~7 years (well clear of 7,500 hours) and have had no real problems with it outside of the left thumbstick's rubber being very thoroughly worn.

I missed it when it originally went live, but my partner pointed out to me last night that Microsoft has just recently started selling replacement parts themselves. Even put up a pair of video tutorials for how to go about tearing down the standard and Elite 2 controllers. It's... still not ideal, but a decent enough start.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/Xbox-Wireless-Controller-repair-parts

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