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Multi Pain. Nothing but Pain. (Dragon Age Thread)

Rachel

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At a certain point in time, this was in my top three series. Y'all. Y'all. I have been waiting TEN YEARS. Before I had my second kid. Before I had my first kid. Before I got married. Look at this shit.

They renamed the title from Dreadwolf to Veilguard. If it wasn't for Varric I'd have no clue this was even a Dragon Age trailer. The art looks like Fortnite shit or even a good mobile game. The whole thing is a character introduction (we can't even get a good look at most of the characters!) like some Overwatch shit.

Who is the villain? Who is the threat? What's the hook? Dunno.

The Dragon Age subreddit is in shambles right now. Some are in denial, saying they sometimes have a different "look" for a trailer.

This game is SUPPOSEDLY taking place in Tevinter! Tevinter, the continent with its main feature being "this is the slave trade continent." Meanwhile, we've got Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy-level quips. This is a dark fantasy genre right??

Also lol at the music?????

Y'all. Duncan died for this shit. I'm sorry, Duncan. Solas was right. Going from Baldur's Gate 3 to this is almost a crime.

(this goes without saying but all the original writers are gone)
 

Ben

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That looks... Horrid.

Dragon Age: Origins was tight. I loved that shit. I never got around to II or Inquisition, but Origins was definitely one of the better games of the ~2010 era.

I wanted to blame it on EA, in the same way they ruined so many other great franchises like Star Wars: Battlefront, but... It looks like they've always been the publisher.

I think what's more likely is Bioware as a company has gone to shit. They used to put out so many amazing titles like Neverwinter Nights and Knights of the Old Republic, but once they got pulled into the big money world they just shit the bed on quality. Truly a shame.
 

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Apparently GameInformer has a couple of leaked screenshots from the upcoming issue floating around, and the actual game doesn't look like this?

Doesn't speak to the tone and feel at all, of course, but maybe there's some small amount of hope that this trailer was outsourced and more meant for the phase of the game back when it was a Live Service clusterfuck?

Guess we'll find out tomorrow. đź‘€
 

Rachel

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yes at this point I'm pretty much waiting for Tuesday. No matter what though, this trailer was not thought through. We've been waiting for years. We want to know the hook first and we want to know the game is still going to be okay even with the rocky development. Just a completely bone-headed decision and therefore I have less confidence in the rest. But we'll see.

Here's an example of what I am talking about: why does Varric have a beard? His entire character is that he's a surface dweller, he rejects dwarven culture and he's always been clean shaven because of that. Not saying he can't ever grow a beard, just concerned they are not handling this the way previous writers set things up.

Also wondering about which romance option I will go with. I've always been able to find somebody. Now, there's gonna be advisor romances, so not everybody shown here. But as a personal preference I never romance women. It looks like there's three options on the men side and I can't say much about them now. (I preference PC romances to advisors, you can go out in the field with them, etc). Obviously Varric will not be a romance option (unless they fuck that up). One of the guys looks old (sorry) so thinking probably not him.

I want to think they learn some sort of lesson for outsourcing the trailer, or using clips back when it had a different plan, but...yeah right...
 
I mean, for me DA has been on the decline since the first. Origins is peak DA, II was good but not great, and candidly I don't remember shit about Inquisition even though I came close to getting Platinum on it apparently.

Dreadwolf as a title sounded better too.

I never played 2 because I have heard mixed things about it, but I did like DA:I, it has its problems, but really liked the characters and world
 

Rachel

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okay. My brief reaction:

Feeling more mixed now. I guess I wish I could learn more, still.

  • It's neat that Rook is black by default
  • Solas didn't sound like Solas but I can't imagine he has a different voice actor so I'm not sure what's up with that (Varric sounds like Varric--is this just me?) maybe this will continue to be smoothed out later?
  • Art direction is still meh. I don't hate it as much but it doesn't look too upgraded. Having trouble putting my finger on it, what exactly bothers me. A tad too cartoony still.
  • Music is a lot better
  • Want to see what is new--any new mechanics?
  • Seems as though you can choose between six factions...and perhaps which faction you choose is the companion you start with?
  • Still trying to figure out what the hook is. With DAI we knew we'd be healing openings in the rift. What are we doing long term? Is it something with the Evanuris?
  • Solas was holding back somewhat...I think they are going to play up something about that
  • Didn't see anything about tactical mode...kind of surprised...or character switching
  • Conflicted about the weird spotlight etc...too sci-fi in tone...but maybe this is Tevinter
 
Gameplay trailer was better. Less Fortnite/Marvel quippy/quirkiness. Still too cartoony, but it's pretty to look at.

The official twitter account says you will be able to command actions from the companions but I doubt you can directly control them. They would have explicitly said that in response to everyone asking/ranting.

Call me naive, but I feel better about it seeing the gameplay. Even though it's still so far from a typical RPG, it gave me 3rd person action game vibes (even with the trope-y sliding down a hill!) and I have preferred games like that more recently than in-depth thinking combat.
 
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i have very mixed feelings about this. on the one hand i have very fond memories of the dragon age series. but on the other hand im not liking this trend of rpgs becoming more like action games. i much prefer the more laid back strategic approaches over the high octane action elements. not being able to control your companions is a massive letdown.
 

Rachel

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aight new video just dropped



I recognized Morrigan's voice right away. Why they didn't show something like this FIRST I'll never know.

Halloween release date.

Trying to figure out which path I'll start with. Leaning towards Grey Warden but who knows.

Feeling slightly less worried but this also wouldn't be the first time the trailer showed all the best stuff
 


More info

Via Shinobi602 on Twitter


Options/Customization
▪️You can pause during cutscenes
▪️You can choose your undergarments in the character creator, toggle nudity ON/OFF
▪️You can refund all your skill points to respect into other specializations if you want
▪️Full list of accessibility features coming in the future before launch
▪️There are a lot of 'faction items' (gear tied to factions) that become available as you help other factions get stronger, like armor from the Veil Jumpers faction that looks like it was made by Veil Jumpers and may be connected (like having electric damage)
▪️Full transmog system: any piece of gear you find unlocks the appearance for that gear, and some can be cosmetic only (ex: you can dress up to look like a training dummy)
▪️You can also transmog both armor and casual wear, so if you want to walk around the Lighthouse in full armor.
▪️You can save a character you create in the creator so you don't have to start from scratch every time, though it is local to your console/PC as Veilguard is an offline game
▪️Lots of praise for the hair tech, there are some "incredible" beards in the character creator, like grander Dwarven style beards (braids, beads, etc)
▪️You can hide things like combat damage numbers, minimap, wayfinder markers, health bar, incoming attack indicators, and more
▪️All helmets can be worn by all races with one exception: Qunari face paint (there are many variants)
▪️Each armor piece has standard colors, but most of them have a variety of color variant cosmetics (often aligned with the different factions)
▪️Your in-game surname is based on your faction background choice and gets mentioned in dialogue a decent amount


Exploration
▪️Critical story missions are more linear so they can be highly handcrafted
▪️There are several large explorable open areas like Arlathan Forest, The Hossberg Wetlands, Crossroads, etc)
▪️Each companion has unique abilities outside of combat that can help you during exploration, puzzles, etc


Companions
▪️Taash (the female Qunari) is the youngest (early 20s),
▪️Emmerich (gray haired mage) is the oldest in his early 50s
▪️Davrin (Grey Warden companion) is stern, thoughtful and considerate but also has a soft side. He has a strong sense of pride and maybe a rivalry with certain other companions. He is also a dedicated and gifted monster hunter
▪️There are no romanceable NPCs outside of the companions as the team wanted romance to focus on them
▪️Teased that companions are having more strange abilities may have something to do with the Veil being in bad shape and more magic coming back to the world through the tears
▪️There are many organic relationships between companions that develop throughout the game, for example: Neve and Bellara form a sisterly bond, which Taash and Emmerich have great banter and don't see eye to eye on necromancy at all
▪️There's no 'hug companion' button, but there are instances where you can hug companions
▪️Gifts return, you can find items out in the world in specific locations that you can buy and very personal to companions. These gifts will also be reflected in each of their rooms
▪️All companions have a personal arc and their quests are varied
▪️Some quests can expire based on choices you make or plot progression, but generally the team doesn't want you to miss out on stuff (ex: companions can show up in the world and spontaneously lead to adventures with them)
▪️Companion relationships with each other will develop throughout the game, like when you commit to someone romantically. There are various friendships and rivalries
▪️All the companions have favorite foods, some on the team have varied skills in cooking. Bellara and Lucanis are practically the team cooks, and this comes up in the game
▪️Companions feel like a 'found family', become invested in each other which shows up in many scenes, banter, hub interactions, etc. The team didn't want the game to feel like a theme park just for the player but for companions to feel like their own person and living in the world


Combat
▪️Combos: Mages apply weakened/overwhelmed debuffs ("primers"), and also detonate the 'sunder' debuff. Rogues apply weakened/sunder and detonate 'overwhelmed'. Warriors apply 'sundered/overwhelmed' and detonate 'weakened'. This rock-paper-scissors style relationship can be one of the benefits of having one of each class. Gear/skills/runes can also break this paradigm, lots of flexibility
▪️Each class has two weapon slots and you can switch between them even mid-attack. For example mages can use a staff or orb+dagger. You can attack with the staff then switch mid-attack to orb+dagger
▪️You can also use that to your advantage with elementals, for example a fire attack then quickly switching to a necrotic orb+dagger for extra damage
▪️Bringing a 'tank' into battle isn't required, even on harder difficulties. The team realized players get attached to companions and always want to bring them along every time, so they built and designed gameplay to accommodate a variety of builds and playstyles
▪️Mage class can learn abilities from all elements, not tied to any specialization (though specializations like Evoker can make it easier to get into ice spells for example)
▪️Elemental effects were a large focus while developing the game, so that meant all classes needed to be visually represented so no one felt left out (ex: rogues and warriors can seem a little more magical). Warriors were one of the least favorite classes so the team wanted them to be more visually interesting and impactful (you can make a build that's more physical-based/not as flashy if you want to)


Story/Lore

▪️There are other griffons that show up in the game besides Assan
▪️There are many incentives for multiple playthroughs, including the three classes playing very differently, as well as choices you make affecting different outcomes, content you may or may not see based on those choices, etc
▪️The game doesn't require you to have read outside lore like books, comics, etc, though these enhance the experience
▪️Your faction choice will open up unique dialogue options with certain companions
▪️Your relationship and dialogue with Solas can be more friendly or more antagonistic. Companion relationships sometimes cross over with Solas (Bellara and Davrin for example have deeper thoughts on Solas)
▪️Returning characters are brought back with purpose. Morrigan for example is coming to terms with reflections about herself and her mother, accepting who she is, etc
 
Almost everything in that summary sounds pretty good to me. I didn't really love Inquisition (and haven't played any of the other games), but this definitely seems like a game that will stay on my radar for when it drops in price.

I liked Inquisition a lot, you do have to get out of the hinterlands ASAP and focus on the main quest and ignore MMO like quests unless they are on your way or you have 20 or so minutes to kill

You should really play Origins, I actually havent played 2

I will be waiting for a GOTY type deal and when its cheap most likely. I am hankering to replay Origins, played it a long time ago, on ps3 actually as I didnt have a good PC. I rarely buy games at release. Just started Kingdom Come Deliverance and Case of the Golden Idol, got them for about $7 each
 
I liked Inquisition a lot, you do have to get out of the hinterlands ASAP and focus on the main quest and ignore MMO like quests unless they are on your way or you have 20 or so minutes to kill

You should really play Origins, I actually havent played 2
I definitely would like to play Origins. It's amazing with all of the remastered and ported games out there that the first two Dragon Age games are stuck on the Xbox 360/PS3 generation (I presume they're on PC as well, but usually there's a more modern console version available).
 


Top post from rock paper shotgun stands out to me

... almost everything Veilguard does - from characters to combat to exploration - only start to get interesting about eight hours in.
It hits its stride about halfway through, then stumbles and eventually plods. I ended up lowering enemy health, since I'd seen every combination of foes in the game a dozen times and just wanted to get through fights quicker. There is, I dare say, a reason why combat like this is usually found in fifteen hour action games, not 50-100 hour natterthons.

And a few reviews seem to mention similar

Though the way a reviewer has to play these games is different than most gamers
 

VashTheStampede

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Most of the reviews on my feed feel very positive and have me excited to play the game.

Then there's a few like this that give some trepidation.

Then there's all the bad faith actors already trying to trash it for being "woke" or a "Sweet Baby Inc product" so I'll definitely buy the game once I'm done with Metaphor :link
 
Most of the reviews on my feed feel very positive and have me excited to play the game.

Then there's a few like this that give some trepidation.

Then there's all the bad faith actors already trying to trash it for being "woke" or a "Sweet Baby Inc product" so I'll definitely buy the game once I'm done with Metaphor :link

Can't wait for Christmas break to play metaphor
 

TD

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This game is an excellent example that the people that made Bioware a powerhouse are long gone. Between shitty EA practices to throttle review copies to select people to try to provide a false narrative and the damning 45 minute review by Skill Up that shows so very much about this game - at best I'd caution you to manage your expectations and wait until more comes out before potentially wasting your money. This is a Dragon Age game in name only.
 

VashTheStampede

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Between shitty EA practices to throttle review copies to select people to try to provide a false narrative

Several people I have followed for a long time (including Jason Schreier, who has written endlessly about the bullshit behind the scenes at BioWare) who have been extremely critical of their past games got codes.

Seen a bunch of people that I wish didn't have a platform to spread hate that didn't get codes though.

I dunno how much I buy into that element of the story that's out there.

Also I'm old enough to remember both Dragon Age II and Inquisition getting slapped with the same "this isn't Dragon Age" label and both those games have aged extremely well in my opinion.

I think it's going to be the 4th straight extremely divisive game in the series and hopefully the 4th straight that I very much enjoy.
 
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so, this is coming from someone whose favorite BioWare game is Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (notice that i did not say it was a "good game" or "fun to play") and although i did like the Mass Effect series, 3 left such a bad taste in my mouth and replaying them recently revealed that the original Mass Effect is not as good if you are not in high school. ME2 is still peak though but rip to the mako #RIPMako

anyway. way back around when it came out i rented DA:O from gamefly. i went in expecting "mass effect but with dragons." that's my problem. i did not get that. i sent it back after 30 minutes of gameplay. around when DA:I came out i decided to give the series another try. i went into the keep and painstakingly made decision after decision to build the world state i would have had had i played those first two games to completion. i made a hot qunari warrior girl. i stopped playing after 2 or 3 hours. it just wasn't fun.

flash forward to now. i share a house with three big dragon age fans, my wife among them. one of them likes solas but also hates him. you know how you sometimes have a guy like that. anyway, it is so frustrating to her that the best version of DA:I's story and dialogue is locked behind being a female elf mage who romances solas and even further locked behind DLC that essentially ended up being mandatory to understand what the fuck the current world state even is in dragon age. add that to the fact that the keep pretty much got thrown out the window and there's only THREE choices that matter going into DA:V and. well. at least a bunch of chuds are mad that they're being forced at gunpoint to put top surgery scars on their characters

we have been replaying DA:I (well i say "replaying" as if i ever finished it in the first place) with aforementioned female elf mage who romances solas. it is excruciating at times. but it is necessary to get the intended dragon age experience. you've heard of The Dragon Age Setting i mean Thedas...meet T'hedap, The Dragon Age Protagonist

IMG_1539.jpg
 

VashTheStampede

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Trespasser should 100% have been in the base game or free DLC.

Having never romanced Solas, but instead being just good friends with him, that shit still hits HARD. I bet it's straight fire as a elf mage romancing him.

I hate/love that egg looking motherfucker
 

TD

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Also I'm old enough to remember both Dragon Age II and Inquisition getting slapped with the same "this isn't Dragon Age" label and both those games have aged extremely well in my opinion.

I think it's going to be the 4th straight extremely divisive game in the series and hopefully the 4th straight that I very much enjoy.
Oh I'm with you. I bought and played all 3 on release, one of my favourite RPGs is DA:O. I even went back this year and did another run-through of DA:I so I could finally wrap up the Plat.

I enjoyed them all a lot, but this one is an easy pass for me with what I've seen as it's not what I'm looking for. That said though, others may enjoy what it offers and I hope you get that out of it.
 
I've been following the reviews as well and the mention of "woke" parts is going to make this another Star Wars Outlaws... mouth breathing gamers review bombing it for no reason at all.

I'm curious to see what some of my more trusted followers think. Schreier is one, I disagree with some of his most recent game conclusions, but respect his integrity.

I was expecting to see a 73 or similar on metacritic yesterday, so this is a surprise. If I end up buying it, I'll get it early on to mix in with Metaphor. I need some action style gaming to mix in with the generally slow/coziness of Metaphor.
 
Yeah I just saw that. I've watched some of the SkillUp review and he's not wrong. I agree with his takes about the design of the game and outdated mechanics. It makes sense, the game went through development changes for years, so those are there. I'm going to continue on with Metaphor and see what the consensus is among fans of the series, vs critics and casual fans over the next couple weeks. I'll end up playing it at some point, I know that.

The one complaint I keep seeing that is concerning is there isn't really a way to role play Rook outside of a few decisions that are major. People are joking that the dialogue choices seem to be:

Response to companion or NPC's question:

Yes
No, but really yes because your decision doesn't matter.
Sarcastic yes

I still feel like it's going to be a decent game with vetted mechanics, just not what I was hoping it would be.
 
Trespasser should 100% have been in the base game or free DLC.

Having never romanced Solas, but instead being just good friends with him, that shit still hits HARD. I bet it's straight fire as a elf mage romancing him.

I hate/love that egg looking motherfucker


I'm not sure I actually ever played trespasser, I got the game of the year edition, and I think I beat the main game, not sure if I did anything with trespasser or beat both
 

Rachel

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I played for about five hours yesterday. I'm putting this in spoilers but it's just the first five hours of the game:

Well, before I do that I guess I should mentioned that I replayed the entirety of Inquisition. I had forgotten about certain things. You guys have to remember, they showed off some amazing stuff...was it at E3? The capturing of the forts and bases etc was originally going to have a way higher impact. A lot of things never made it into the final product.

It was great to have the open world/open area concept. You earn Power to unlock the next main story missions, but you can gain Power in numerous ways. BUT I had forgotten how much the hills and the valleys sucked to walk through. And I had forgotten how Corypheus is such a forgettable villain (lol). I feel like the twist at the end somewhat salvaged some of the problems here.

Also, people are complaining that Veilguard isn't dark enough. I have to say...what was super dark in Inquisition? IMO the REAL dark stuff happened in 1 and 2.

So first was the character builder. I had a tough time deciding my race and warrior/rogue/mage. One thing I have been trying to figure out is, does your race matter? Does your job class matter for the story or any in-field mechanics? Like in Inquisition, you had special dialogue options for both. The elves greeted me different as an elf. You want to bring along three of each job because you need to break walls, unlock stuff, etc. I haven't seen any of that so far. I decided to play as a Qunari ONLY because I wanted to see if I could have something special happen with any Qunari people I meet. So I'll be disappointed if that means nothing.

I decided to play as a warrior. One thing I knew a little bit about before hand, and what I saw in the first five hours, is that it takes awhile to find a warrior companion. I actually still haven't met any! It's bizarre. In Inquisition you immediately meet Cassandra, Varric, and Solas. Then after some more tutorial you can find the others pretty quickly. Here, you start with a mage and a rogue...then the first companion you find...is another mage. Are you canon supposed to be a warrior? It feels that way.

The opening act feels...clunky. A lot of handwaving IMO. Like, there's a threat to the city. Why are WE, a group of four people, seemingly the only ones stopping the ritual? In Inquisition you see a field of army officers standing by the breach.

I haven't played much but I am betting the new elven gods are going to be like Corypheus, e.g. forgettable. You HAVE to have these guys so that Solas isn't the main villain of the game IMO.

Combat. I heard that playing warrior is like God of War, playing Rogue is like Assasin's Creed, and playing mage is similar to Witcher. I have to say, so far I do not like the combat because this is not my preference for a Dragon Age game. If we did haven't Solas and the wolf statues and the halla statues and the blight, I wouldn't know this is Dragon Age.

(Having said that. My pre-order included the armor set appearance of the original Origins red dragon armor. I was soooo excited for that)

((Also like that games are finally doing the BG3 thing and having your functional armor and appearance armor as separate options))

I am constantly second-guessing my warrior choice but I don't know. I usually like staying in the back as a mage. But it seems mages have been given melee options and are expected to mix between the front and back so I don't know.

There's been a few times where I SWEAR I dodged in time but the attack connected. You can't dodge at the very last millisecond basically.

It's also weird that death is game over where usually I would just switch to another character. It's also odd that the companions don't have health bars or anything. Can they actually die before me? What's the point in being a tank for them?

The beginning moveset and gear is also kind of unfortunate. You just don't have much of a kit in the beginning.

I also like that they are doing the Horizon thing where quest markers in-field stick to points of where you need to go, such as doors and stairs, and don't just stay static out into the distance. They finally learned

The fake-out for Varric...I didn't like. I don't know. Kinda wish they had gone through with it.

Towards the beginning you come across a village with a ton of blight. People complain it's not dark enough but I thought this area was fairly dreadful. It was darker than anything I can think of in Inquisition.

I am not looking forward to the cringey dialogue. I haven't encountered it very much but I have heard about it.

I met Morrigan. Her VA of course sounds older. Curious that she is wearing the Mythal headpiece. I'm sure Kieran will be a mystery again...
 

Rachel

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please tell me I'm not the only one playing this game on this forum .__,

Posting more thoughts at about the 11 or 12 hour mark...

lmao I STILL don't have a warrior in the party. I think I am about to get one of them. I can't believe how long it is taking to meet everyone. I think I have about half the party. In every other DA game you meet everyone much, much faster. No idea what is happening here. I have been mainly sticking with the main quest with maybe, at most, one hour of diversion.

My fears were confirmed though, there is no such thing as "tanking" in this game. I hear at least one of the warriors (not MC) has a taunt ability. Your two companions can't die in battle. There are also no environmental things that can be unlocked depending on your role, it's just down to special things individual companions can do. So I'm constantly wondering whether I made the right choice with warrior.

*spoiler spoiler spoiler* Solas just casually dropped that he is the reason for the blight, historically???

?????

There's a lot of...painting over the story thus far. It's like they wanted to do a reboot but they couldn't because they knew fans wanted resolution with Solas. Last I remember they implied in DAI an elven rebellion was brewing. But that head writer left. No one seems to be racist towards Elves, even if this time it's literally their "gods." No one seems to care that I am Qunari. There's no visible slavery in Minrathous so far. The Crows especially have been...changed. Zevran mentioned how horrible they really are, how they train people up as children. Here they are basically Batman in skin-tight leather. I also don't think new players understand canon-wise what it means to have your character be a grey warden, a codex goes more into their history but they just seem like knight heroes on the surface level.

It's also turned too high fantasy from dark fantasy, for me. Too much ancient elven technology. Not seeing the world's religions come up so far, other than the elven gods.

The town maps make me frustrated. The sections are not marked on the map! Unless I am missing something, I was trying to return to a merchant district to buy more mementos. But I couldn't figure out where it was. There's beacons...you would think the beacon would include a label of which district it's in...but the label just says "beacon."

Also...I don't think I can sell old armor, accessories, weapons etc??? Someone correct me if I am wrong. It's really, really weird.

The dialogue options remind me of FFXIV. They don't really affect anything, the NPC might change one line but that's usually it.

The voice acting is weird a lot of the time. The best acting comes from returning characters IMO. I first settled on the female voice 2 which is the American voice. My inky was the British version and I was so looking forward to making this new character with the different accent. Holy cow! That was awful. I switched immediately. It's a night and day difference.

I can't believe Dorian and Godrick the Golden have the same VA...it's amazing how some VAs can transform...

I am very worried about the Lavellan ending. I don't know what it is exactly but I have...heard some whispers that concern me. I don't want to be spoiled so trying to avoid it.

Edit: Also seriously doubt I am going to romance anybody. So far the dialogue isn't there I guess.
 

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@Rachel

My wife is the resident Dragon Age queen I'm this household. She was very excited about the game and is currently playing it as I'm still laying in bed lol.

Though thanks to her getting it on steam and the new better family sharing, I can more easily play it too. And I have!

Okay. Nothing really spoilerish. There are changes to some interactions depending on your origin. My warrior is a Grey warden and the scene after.... errr... exciting the tower early on was different than what my wife had. Her character is a Veil jumper. She didn't specify how it went other than different in case I replay it too later on.
 
I keep checking on impressions from people I trust and the game looks like my kind of game to play.

What keeps coming back to the surface is the soft retconning that the game does, and that might be a dealbreaker. I appreciate the semi-spoiler-free impressions @Rachel and will follow along.

Problem with it, is if I do get it, it's going to be following Metaphor: Refantazio which I'm 57 hours into, and it is a nearly perfect RPG so far. DAV is going to feel like a disappointment no matter what.
 
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