Review My FFXVI Review (spoilers marked)

[Rachel]

Hello yes hi this will probably be the longest post I've ever made but also it's my first post so

tl;dr I had fun playing the game. Ultimately that's the most important thing. I can also tell that everyone who was involved are gamers themselves and have a love of gaming.

Big shout out to Crystal for launching the forums alongside big game releases

...

We don't need colons at the end of smilies??? What the fuck

Part 1: What is the Definition of a "Final Fantasy" game?

I just completed the game yesterday. I'm not as young anymore and have more responsibilities so all this takes me a lot longer than it used to. I did the full story, all the side quests, and the hunts. I skipped whatever those challenge obelisk things are called (for now). I am seriously considering doing the new game plus/hard mode. I feel ready to review it.

So, I've never played a game where I've been quite so mixed about how I feel about it. I think a lot of this boils down to my personal definition of what I expect. After giving it a lot of thought, to me the name "Final Fantasy" invokes four qualities (or, it used to) in order of importance:

1. A really good story
2. A well rounded cast, there is usually a main character but also other characters that come in a close second
3. Some sort of strategy in the combat that becomes progressively harder or introduces new mechanics that make you think
4. Music that really elevates the game

If anyone reading this has been paying attention to the FF community at all you'll know we are very divided about FFXVI's new direction. "New direction" being a more mature tone plus a complete decoupling from turn-based combat and moving in the DMC-style of gameplay. I will talk about this further down.

Part 2A: The Story

Hearing bits and pieces about the game, I have to say I was very intrigued by the premise. You have six nations vying for control of the mothercrystals, which are the catalysts for using magic. These nations use huge armies and also fight with "dominants" which are random people that are "blessed" with the abilities to turn into gigantic Eikons, which are the past FF summons. The dominants often fight each other. This last resort combat is shown with a ton of weight. You can easily be killed by your country's own dominant via crossfire or even just being stepped on by accident.

The demo also does a great job of setting this all up. Something new they introduced was the ability to pause the dialogue and view information about what was said to remind yourself what country is what and who is who.

While all this is happening, the land's crops begin dying and soon whole swathes of land are unhabitable. Mid game spoiler, I would not say this is a "huge" spoiler but I'm hiding it:

Spoiler

I was also intrigued that they inverted expectations for the crystals. The FF crystals have always been something that is a boon, something that saves everyone. But here, you find out that the crystals are causing the land to die by drawing "aether" from the planet, and your new goal becomes destroying the mothercrystals.

As I played through the game, I knew this was a lot, and I was somewhat filled with dread. Six nations? How will the writers juggle six nations and the dominants, plus Clive's personal story? Some of this setup reminds me how I felt about 13 during the trailer period. Another intriguing setup--you've got people who are commanded by gods to complete a task, and they have a deadline. Failure means they become monsters. They also first have to figure out what the task is. So throughout the whole game (FFXIII) you've got that hanging over in the background.

Spoiler

Well, surprise, surprise. Just as I was dreading, no, they can't juggle all six nations. If Warp reads this spoiler, or hell any FFXIV fan, then they will know what I mean when I say that a few of the nations get the "FFXIV Empire" treatment. Basically, in FFXIV the Empire is a huge background threat throughout the expansions. You FINALLY visit the Empire in Endwalker, the forth expansion, only to find that it has been completely destroyed. You don't get to see their huge cities etc.

This happens to...well, for sure Waloed. But also the Iron Kingdom is barely touched upon. The Empire, you visit the outlying areas but the major city is visited when a crisis is happening so it's all on rails. Was so disappointed that you don't actually get to walk around freely in Oriflamme.

And so they pull a FFT (which had similar political intrigue) and it's actually a semi-religious outer god/alien threat. Whose name also happens to be Altima...I mean Ultima. I was actually looking forward to Clive threading the needle between all the nation's needs and wants but yet again halfway through we need the power of friendship to kill a god and the complex political stuff falls away.

btw Ultima = Necron?

And the other weird thing is, I JUST played this game! The game I finished right before this one, was Horizon West. In that game, you...also stop a blight. And you also need to stop...outer space aliens/gods. I honestly couldn't believe it as I was playing, I JUST did this plot.

I don't know why we can never have a big city again. I want one Rabanastre. All the cities have to be visited on rails, you can't go down any side streets. It's like we can only have two extremes, no big cities or the FFVII:R treatment where the WHOLE GAME is in one city.

Many times in the story, the plot is handwaved when it comes to the dominants and Clive's actions.

Spoiler

Like imagine someone bombed one of our nuclear plants or a major portion of our electric grid. And once that grid is destroyed, it can't be remade. And, that person himself was a walking nuclear bomb. We would spare NO resource to find that person. We would also probably spare no resource to keep that area protected (even if the immediate area turns everyone into...monsters). But Clive walks around pretty easily and gets into the Mothercrystal areas pretty easily. I am quoting an article I read:

Its events are nearly always big, singular, and only have proper consequences for the protagonists. You'd think that the ongoing destruction of mothercrystals and god-wielding Dominants throughout the plot would have major ramifications on the world, but Valisthea remains largely static and passive, the populace content to be bovine and docile until a Main Character can show up and do something. At one point Clive and the Titan Eikon destroy about half a country in a borderline-apocalyptic brawl, and while it's visually spectacular, I don't think it's even mentioned again after that.

And when you first find Jill, who we find out is Shiva's dominant. She is guarded by a sparse group of barbarians...they are weirdly passive when you fight them...it reset the tone of the demo for what follows. Why is that the way she is guarded?

This also made me wonder about the nature of dominants. She didn't give any indication she was Shiva before. How do dominants awaken? We killed some of the dominants, then there was a time skip...does that mean there is a five year old dominant walking around somewhere? Can a man be the Shiva dominant? Can a woman be Titan?

Saying all that, I actually appreciated each character for each dominant. The writers did a good job shaping each person for this role. Best for me was probably Kupka, Titan's dominant. He was physically imposing and just generally matched Titan.

One thing I really, REALLY wanted was for each dominant to come together in a final fight à la that one scene in the Avengers movie where they spun around the camera on them as they finally come together to fight the common threat.

That would be cool but that didn't happen

While I am mentioning this, also lol at the sidequests mixed in with the main story. After a super heavy plot thing where Clive does something really amazing, one of the NPCs back at the hideaway...asks Clive to go get dirt for him.

I'll also mention the cutscenes here. I think somewhere it was said this game features some X number of hours of cutscenes, I don't remember the number but it was a huge number. I actually never once thought, I wish they didn't have this cutscene. I felt each scene gave important information.

The story also reminds me of FFXIV in that it has to hit certain beats at regular intervals. We already know Clive will need to take the powers of the different Eikons, that is how the combat works. So after X time, he should have a new Eikon power, which means we know after X time playing the game, Clive is going to need to confront a new dominant.

Part 2B: The Mature Tone

So yes, the best way I can describe this game's story feel is a mix between Game of Thrones and The Witcher 3. (Which is a shame because I wanted to one day play new FF games alongside my kids). Clive has Jon Snow comparisons. I actually haven't watched GoT but Torgal/Ghost had to have been a nod to Snow. I agree with many other comments online that the demo was a trick, they front loaded most of the intrigue in the demo. Kind of reminds me of the FFXV demo.

Spoiler

Probably the most notable part of this is Clive's mother, Annabelle, which I am told is a parallel to Jon Snow's mother. (He also has a father, and it is made very very obvious that he is going to die). The demo ends with his mother betraying everyone and killing everyone.

And so Clive begins his quest. The player is also invested in this too, they do a great job of getting you to hate his mother. However, the payoff for her conclusion is so, so bad. I knew Clive was not actually going to kill his mother, no matter what she did. Her death is...I don't know if "not satisfying" is the right word, more like a loose end they tie up abruptly.

I also can't write this section without talking about the Bearers. The Bearers are people who can perform magic without the use of a crystal. This is a random happenstance of birth. This trope is a common one I know, but it mostly reminded me of how mages are treated in Dragon Age. But here, it's almost...ridiculous...how badly the Bearers are treated. Like, evil to an over-the-top level. In this game, Bearers are:

• Branded with a mark on their cheek
• Taken away immediately at birth. Their family stops thinking of them as a person and discards him or her as trash
• Tortured and experimented on
• Given to beasts as food for the beast and also to test the strength of the beast, including children and the elderly
• Made to work as slaves using magic, and they are sold as slaves
• Once they have used magic over a period of years, they turn to stone and there is no cure
• They don't have graves and are burned like trash once they die
• Can be referred to as a pet, like a noble gives a pet bearer to their child
• I'm pretty sure you find a village of them at one point and they are all hanging dead
• Some other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting

And yeah. Like I said, I've never watched GoT. There's been bad stuff happening in previous FF games. The World of Darkness, Freya's hometown is wiped from the map, Sin from FFX, etc etc. But generally they mix it in with light hearted moments. And, I guess I prefer my FF games to not have this level of shock value. Also, as a mother I just want to say I really can't imagine being so brainwashed that I throw my baby out as trash.

Major major ending spoilers:

Spoiler

Clive dies at the end, but it's somewhat ambiguous. That frustrated me...didn't really understand why he had to die, and they didn't really commit to it. The other deaths, Dion and Joshua, felt like weak writing, and it was foreshadowed way too hard. There wasn't much closure, like it was suddenly cut off. And then they cut in later years to show a book written by Joshua, which is ambiguous if he is the author or if that is a pen name, but cheapens the emotional impact of his death and Clive's reaction.

Part 3: The Characters

Okay now I want to give my reaction to the characters.

Clive: I believe Ben Starr carried a lot of this game. I watched a few interviews of him actually, his voice reminds me of Batman, it's definitely not his normal voice, he always talks as a half-whisper as Clive. Several times I was trying to picture Ben in the recording booth and how he got his voice to sound like that. I was very surprised to learn he has basically done no VA work until this. His first FF was 8, which...I think is a weird starting point...

Cid: This is my second favorite incarnation of Cid. lmao I kept wondering how his VA said his lines, Cid has such a gravelly voice...then come to find out that is literally just his VA's voice, he doesn't change it at all!

Jill: Oh boy. Holy shit! The women of this game. I kept waiting for something to happen with her. She's so passive. She does have one empowering moment halfway through, but it's...not kept throughout. And her romance with Clive! At first, I was convinced they were the worst couple in all of the series. But then, I remembered Noctis and Lunafreya. And THEN, I remembered Snow and Serah. For whatever reason, probably since (I would argue) FFIX, Square just stumbles in showing these relationships. However, I did warm up a little to Clive and Jill towards the end. A few scenes rescued this relationship in my eyes, a little. I am also pretty sure this game does not pass the Bechdel-Wallace test. She is Shiva's dominant! I remember thinking several times, why doesn't she become Shiva here? Why doesn't she HELP? Why is she doing nothing??

Spoiler

And the pace of their relationship is so, so weird. First of all, there's the trope of them almost kissing but being interrupted. Okay, then we jump cut five years! And they haven't moved forward at all! I was so weirded out by them, what are they doing for five years! And later in the story, Jill is kidnapped and we rescue her. We escape Odin for reasons...and then the player is scene jump cut to them lying naked on the beach. We go to that from not even kissing each other.

This is also reminding me that I was seriously wondering how Clive was going to take Shiva's powers, which drains the dominant of energy. I thought we would have to fight Jill somehow. What I didn't understand is why Jill didn't give him this power much, much sooner.

Spoiler

Joshua: Probably the most normal person. I don't have much to say about him. I have two little boys so appreciated the brother relationship.

Gav: Not actually sure if Gav is short for something? lol the game kept trying to make him an important secondary character, where's that meme from Mean Girls, "stop trying to make Gav a character, it's not going to happen"

The girl Dion met: Okay I honestly thought something else was going to happen with her. She rescues Dion, he wants to repay her...then nothing about it is said again

Spoiler

Dion: Very very surprised to see an actual gay relationship in the game. The series has always been tee hee we're BESTIES! Like I was genuinely shocked here, especially having just played FFXIV's Shadowbringers raid quests.

Tarja: A Woman That

Otto: I liked Otto, I liked his backstory. I just wish Clive wasn't the focus and we had actual secondary characters.

Spoiler

Ultima: I liked whoever his VA was, did a good job of sounding monotone and alien. He was very tropey as a villain, which...okay, that happens often. His final form definitely looked like something from Amano.

Part 4: The Combat

Okay this section should be spoiler-free. So yeah, instead of turn-based combat it's Devil May Cry style. You start out in a lot of tutorial scenarios. Many of the starting abilities you learn, to me, just take up unwanted combat time. I almost never used the ranged magic ability or the sword fire power up ability. Also, to this day I don't understand the parry mechanic. Whenever I parried, it was on accident.

I like that the devs give you different accessories to tweak the combat difficulty. I think they understand many of the fans are not used to this type of combat. This definitely lends to accessibility.

Overall, I only died twice: once when I got glare/doom and didn't understand the mechanic in this type of combat, and once when I didn't understand a mechanic as an Eikon. The enemies tend to give very telegraphed attacks. The normal enemies are also a joke, they are mostly just punching bags. There is an Eikon ability I use that requires it to be charged for a period of time before it can be used. During this charging period you must dodge all attacks. Well, I've noticed it takes foreverrr for normal enemies to actually attack you. They mostly start out by standing around you. Not sure if that changes in the hard mode.

And they definitely needed to have made the hard mode available from the beginning.

And so now the comparison to past games comes in. I do not recall ever having voluntarily hit a Bomb enemy with a fire attack, but elements don't matter here, which is...against everything I know for a Final Fantasy game.

So that was weird

It's also weird that status effects pretty much aren't a thing.

When I played FFX (I'll probably mention 10 a lot), I will never forget fighting Sanctuary Keeper. It's a very forgettable boss for most, but it's an important knowledge check boss on your way to Yunalesca. I'll NEVER forget when I realized it could cast Reflect. It could also counter Slow with Haste. And...it knew Curaga. You needed to understand Reflect and Dispel mechanics. It was the culmination of everything you learned, and you needed to be very careful. I know every FF fan remembers a similar boss like I do for Sanctuary Keeper.

Nothing like that is in this game. As long as you can dodge or block, you can beat a boss. It's that way from the beginning until the end. And, there is a reason DMC games are not long, drawn out roleplaying-game times.

I also like how they featured several Malboros in a game with no status effects

I've read some Yoshi-P interviews (the game's producer). In one interview, he mused if the series should actually ditch the numerals. He later clarified these statements but it got the community talking. I actually wonder if this wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of it might be new player confusion, do you need to have played all the others to understand this game? Many of the newest releases don't have numbers like God of War and Zelda.

I also did all of the hunts and was disappointed that the final hunts you unlock are two A rank hunts? Where is the Yiazmat of the game? You obviously couldn't do a Yiazmat with this genre because probably your hands would become too tired. I beat all of the hunts on the first try (except for mister Glare, literally the first hunt lol).

Part 5: Exploration and Graphics

I had to think hard about what my definition of "open world" is. It is true that FFXVI has "open areas" like fields or hills. To me, an open world game doesn't just mean there are branching roads. To me, it means there are interesting things to discover, things you would not have found if you stay on the intended path. These supplemental things also help world building.

Taking the FFX example again (because it was my first FF), many people point to how linear FFX was. It was until it wasn't. The Mi'ihen Highroad happens not long into the game where you can go from two points with different things happening. And there's the Calm Lands. Plenty of optional points of interest, including two optional summons and the monster arena. It also had actual mini games. Plus the different areas you can visit in the airship navigation points.

FFXVI has these challenge obelisk things to discover. That's about it. Oh, I guess it also sometimes have chests. Which leads me to an easy tangent: I still remember what the FFX chests looked like. The FFXVI chests are so plain (which is in line with the mature theme of the game I guess), they look like plain boxes, easily missable.

For the graphics, I thought they were pretty good. I liked whenever Clive stepped into some kind of vista area with a huge landscape to view. I also liked the forest area. The buildings are true to their medieval inspiration and are mostly plain. The Eikon battles look really good.

And it's a shame there are no mini games. Maybe they didn't have the time to put that in. Also, I question whether any sort of mini game would fit the tone of the game. You are branded as a Bearer, which means people don't want to talk with you. How could you play Triple Triad when that's happening? Would a fishing mini game fit with the tone of all the horrible things that happen?

And not just mini games, where's the puzzles and dungeons? There are dungeons in the sense that there are areas you can't back out of once you start. But they are hallways, like FFXIV. I still fondly remember doing the FFX Cloister Trials, but nothing like that is here.

Part 6: Music

Again, in order to understand my thoughts about this game's music, I need to talk about FFX.

I will never forget Kilika's music. Why Kilika? Here it is if you want to listen:



I remember when I realized this was a guitar version of Suteki Da Ne. This happened a lot throughout the game. Between that and Hymn of the Fayth. It had that connection throughout. Culminating with the Contest of Aeons, the final boss battle:



This song took EVERYTHING you learned about the world in the game and spit it back at you. This whole religion is corrupted! Etc etc. (It also didn't rely on Latin choruses). The ending song did similar work with a bittersweet version of the Hymn of the Fayth AND To Zanarkand.

Okay, so, all that said, this game doesn't really have anything like that. The most it has is some callbacks to the original Final Fantasy theme (and lol, they gave us a version of the victory fanfare with a latin chorus).



They haven't released the full OST yet, but I can at least link to the Eikon themes (warning the video itself has spoilers), and this is where the music shines the most:

• Phoenix's theme is probably my favorite. It feels hurried, frantic, like he knows he doesn't have much time.
• Titan: has a Thanatos "I am inevitable" air to it with the beginning riff of the third act
• Bahamut: sounds regal, like "The King Has Arrived"

Spoiler

Typhon was a surprise to me. They did a good job making him REALLY creepy and re-inventing him. Good music.

The other non-Eikon tracks are fine. They just aren't as memorable compared to what I wanted. Again the full OST isn't available so I can't give more examples.

Part 7: Comparisons

When I think about this series re-inventing itself, a few other game series come to mind: Resident Evil, Elden Ring, Zelda (which my husband is currently playing), and Persona.

I've been watching what has happened with Resident Evil with great interest. I believe this is a fantastic video that explains it better than I can:



Elden Ring, well I played it earlier this year. If you're not familiar, they took a lot of good stuff from Dark Souls and made it even better. It's currently my favorite game.

Zelda: A game that did a lot of re-inventing without totally switching genres.

Persona: Just mentioning this because it's totally possible to have a turn-based RPG in this age and still be successful.

Part 8: Fine, Have THIS!

A few bits that the devs probably felt they had to include or other random things I want to mention:

• lol at the jump mechanics. Clive does all this amazing stuff but then he can only jump one foot into the air
• I'm upset with the quest markers. Especially in Lostwing, it's so hard to look at the map and understand where you need to go vertically. This is also having just come from Horizon West. In that game, the quest marker attaches itself to stairs and roads so you can easily see where you need to go. FFXVI is still not doing that. No idea why we can't have this.
• Why do we have to select the quest item before we hand it off?
• Why do we have to view the hunt board to remember the hunt location? Why can't that be saved somewhere as a note on the overworld map?
• Why can't we buy multiple items at once?
• lol at the token Moogle in the game
• Why did they make opening doors a production
• Why would you name your kingdom Waloed? That's silly
• Why would you name your baby boy Goetz?
• The craft system is so shallow I'm not sure they should have included it, towards the end I was getting a lot of craft items but didn't understand what I was supposed to do with them as each weapon and equipment progression doesn't call for that many materials, maybe I was supposed to sell them?
• The armor was also a pretty shallow system, you get...different belts? Vambraces?
• Didn't understand gil for awhile, I was saving all of my money but never saw anything good to buy. Eventually I realized the pricey items were...orchestrion rolls? Wouldn't that have made better quest rewards?
• It is very easy to waste potions because you wanted to do a Torgal command
• I'm glad they made an update to add a setting for motion blur
• I definitely feel they spent most of the budget on the Eikon fights. At least one was an hour and half.
• It took me a very long time to understand that you can level up Torgal's abilities

Would I have purchased this without the Final Fantasy title? I don't know. I did play God of War, but only when it was free with my PS+ membership. Maybe I would have waited. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. Sorry if you really read all of this. Again, I have criticisms but I did have fun.

I might be just about to find out what the character limit is

 

[Raine]

Let's get the elephant in the room out of the way first:

Naoki Yoshida is a misogynistic, homophobic and egotistical piece of shit. He should have been fired on that basis alone years ago, and Square Enix deserves every bit of flak they've received for his outright racist remarks about people of color and diversity being a distraction. I guarantee you XIV and XVI would be better games without his involvement.

The way XVI treats its women is reprehensible and inexcusable. Even if Benedikta's rape-y past and the threats of gang rape ("empowerment") moments before her brutal murder aren't/weren't as upfront as the initial leaks suggested, doing this shit again after they did something extraordinarily similar in XIV with Yotsuyu is mind-blowingly awful. Jill also received the Kairi treatment, so, woo and shit there too. Fire the writers on this trainwreck while you're at it.

Part 1: What is the Definition of a "Final Fantasy" game?

So let's start here. We're in the year 2023, it takes at best 5 years (and more like 7-10) to get a new entry in most Triple-A franchises. Not having an identity is not a positive trait. You cannot count on XVII being similar to XVI; you can't even count on it being the same as X, XII, XIII or XV. This is mid-aughts Sonic the Hedgehog levels of IP burial.

Aside from which, Final Fantasy did used to have an identity. It was a story first and foremost about exploring some aspect of love - romantic, platonic, familial - and how that emotion shapes a person and their relationships. X is literally an ad hoc, dysfunctional family trying their best to come together and save Yuna for crying out loud! Just putting Chocobos, Moogles and Malboro into a game alongside some throwback sound effects and the Crystal Theme doesn't make it a Final Fantasy game.

There's some of that still in XV's jumbled mess, and it sounds like it's present to some degree in XVI... but, yeah. I dunno. Nothing I've seen of XVI makes me think "Final Fantasy." It doesn't necessarily have to be turn-based, but I've played quite a few of Square's internal attempts at Action/Action-RPG. They're basically universally mediocre or worse; enemies lack proper telegraphing, hitstun is wrong/entirely missing, HP sponges galore. And boy howdy do they love their dumb Stagger mechanic.

Spoiler: Nations

Well, surprise, surprise. Just as I was dreading, no, they can't juggle all six nations. If Warp reads this spoiler, or hell any FFXIV fan, then they will know what I mean when I say that a few of the nations get the "FFXIV Empire" treatment. Basically, in FFXIV the Empire is a huge background threat throughout the expansions. You FINALLY visit the Empire in Endwalker, the forth expansion, only to find that it has been completely destroyed. You don't get to see their huge cities etc.

Yeah, obviously this isn't much of a shock for someone like me. But it's still disappointing. If that's to be some grand component of your narrative, you should probably get all of that straightened out first.

In before DLC to flesh some of it out, I suppose.

narrative dissonance

XV: The entire world is dangerous, and at night shadowy monsters come out and hunt. Absolutely none of our little outposts have walls, fences or even guards, though!

It's been a recurring theme for a long time now, unfortunately. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Taking shots at XIV again: Nothing you do matters, really. There are no stakes, no one of any consequence will ever die and any injuries will just be healed, ignored (see: Y'shtola) or Deus Ex Machina'd out of existence (see: Tempering). It's the worst type of Shonen anime nonsense, and doesn't even have the flash to hide the glaring flaws.

While I am mentioning this, also lol at the sidequests mixed in with the main story. After a super heavy plot thing where Clive does something really amazing, one of the NPCs back at the hideaway...asks Clive to go get dirt for him.

So instead of learning any lessons from a decade of god awful XIV quests, they doubled down? Sounds about right.

So yes, the best way I can describe this game's story feel is a mix between Game of Thrones and The Witcher 3. (Which is a shame because I wanted to one day play new FF games alongside my kids). Clive has Jon Snow comparisons. I actually haven't watched GoT but Torgal/Ghost had to have been a nod to Snow.

The developers are on record having all watched the first four seasons of GoT and using that as inspiration, yes. Which is... not great.

Clive being Ifrit and Jill being Shiva is just, y'know, the level of regurgitation you should expect after hearing something like that. It's a song of Ice and Fire, teehee!

Probably the most notable part of this is Clive's mother, Annabelle, which I am told is a parallel to Jon Snow's mother.

Catelyn Stark is portrayed as a good woman though, that just treats Jon poorly because he's a constant reminder of Ned's infidelity.

From what I've seen and read, Annabelle is just cartoonishly evil. Basically all of the bad parts of Catelyn, Lysa and Cersei. With none of the depth or positive characteristics.

I also can't write this section without talking about the Bearers. The Bearers are people who can perform magic without the use of a crystal. This is a random happenstance of birth. This trope is a common one I know, but it mostly reminded me of how mages are treated in Dragon Age. But here, it's almost...ridiculous...how badly the Bearers are treated. Like, evil to an over-the-top level.

I watched, amongst others, the video James Stephanie Sterling did on it. When every aspect of your culture is just constantly shitting on Bearers at every possible juncture, even in casual NPC conversation as you pass them, you've gone way too far. And this society apparently only functions because these people with magical powers exist? Absurd.

ending spoiler

They apparently just did this as a throwback/reference to XIV. Because some of the HW writers are the ones that did XVI.

Probably for DLC reasons, too. A common complaint I've seen is that the game is very explicit about absolutely everything - right until you hit the end.

Okay this section should be spoiler-free. So yeah, instead of turn-based combat it's Devil May Cry style. You start out in a lot of tutorial scenarios. Many of the starting abilities you learn, to me, just take up unwanted combat time. I almost never used the ranged magic ability or the sword fire power up ability. Also, to this day I don't understand the parry mechanic. Whenever I parried, it was on accident. ... Overall, I only died twice

This is something that I was concerned would be the case. Crisis Core on normal will literally play and beat itself if you don't do anything. You can't try and emulate DMC without proper difficulty options, and even "Easy" DMC is probably a lot harder than your average Final Fantasy fan would want. So I guess their answer was to just make the game really easy, add dubious "accessibility" options via the accessories to make it even easier, and... yeah.

The fact that they want fans of DMC/Character Action to slog through ~40 hours to unlock the "real" combat system is astoundingly stupid. But, well, they sort of did that with XIII too - until you have the additional Paradigm roles unlocked for everyone, that combat system leaves an immense amount to be desired. And even after you have them, there are really only a couple of fights over in The Faultwarrens that won't immediately crumble.

And so now the comparison to past games comes in. I do not recall ever having voluntarily hit a Bomb enemy with a fire attack, but elements don't matter here, which is...against everything I know for a Final Fantasy game.

It's also weird that status effects pretty much aren't a thing.

This is Yoshida's doing. He fully believes his audience is too stupid to deal with elemental wheels and status ailments. There really isn't any of that in XIV either for the exact same reason, on top of that game being 3D but lacking verticality, limited line of sight, and positional requirements being on the verge of complete removal.

I've read some Yoshi-P interviews (the game's producer). In one interview, he mused if the series should actually ditch the numerals. He later clarified these statements but it got the community talking. I actually wonder if this wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of it might be new player confusion, do you need to have played all the others to understand this game? Many of the newest releases don't have numbers like God of War and Zelda.

XI and XIV already shouldn't have mainline numbers. XVI should also be distinct because, well, it's not an RPG. I get that they want to keep the name for brand purposes, but... yeah. I think it's time to do away with them, just not for player confusion reasons. If XVII was just called "Final Fantasy" everyone would call it FF(year) anyway.

And it's a shame there are no mini games. Maybe they didn't have the time to put that in. Also, I question whether any sort of mini game would fit the tone of the game. You are branded as a Bearer, which means people don't want to talk with you. How could you play Triple Triad when that's happening? Would a fishing mini game fit with the tone of all the horrible things that happen?

This is basically the problem I have with Persona 5. You're not allowed to engage in a lot of stuff because you're a criminal and everyone's afraid of you. But 1) they chose that story path, and that's not really a good excuse and 2) P5's mechanics allow you to become more accepted/respected, but the story refuses to acknowledge that and open anything up in the second half. Most likely the same deal here. And XVI was in planning/development since 2015.

And not just mini games, where's the puzzles and dungeons? There are dungeons in the sense that there are areas you can't back out of once you start. But they are hallways, like FFXIV. I still fondly remember doing the FFX Cloister Trials, but nothing like that is here.

So I'm curious - the game wants to be DMC/GoW: Ragnarok, right? Does it actually accomplish that goal? Because, at least for DMC, I can't see having proper dungeons and puzzles as a good fit. DMC basically just has (largely) linear stages you progress through, sometimes needing to locate a key or something to open a door. And that's about it.

Okay, so, all that said, this game doesn't really have anything like that. The most it has is some callbacks to the original Final Fantasy theme (and lol, they gave us a version of the victory fanfare with a latin chorus).

Everything here just sounds like it'd fit into XIV's mishmash or maybe even XV's largely unremarkable offerings, with the chorus and such.

Spoiler: List

• I'm upset with the quest markers. Especially in Lostwing, it's so hard to look at the map and understand where you need to go vertically. This is also having just come from Horizon West. In that game, the quest marker attaches itself to stairs and roads so you can easily see where you need to go. FFXVI is still not doing that. No idea why we can't have this.
• Why do we have to select the quest item before we hand it off?
• Why do we have to view the hunt board to remember the hunt location? Why can't that be saved somewhere as a note on the overworld map?
• Why can't we buy multiple items at once?
• Why did they make opening doors a production
• The craft system is so shallow I'm not sure they should have included it, towards the end I was getting a lot of craft items but didn't understand what I was supposed to do with them as each weapon and equipment progression doesn't call for that many materials, maybe I was supposed to sell them?
• The armor was also a pretty shallow system, you get...different belts? Vambraces?

Just reiterating the point that this all just sounds like problems directly carried over from XIV. CBU3 hasn't been handling XIV well for a long time, and it would appear they aren't onboarding feedback and learning if they're repeating the mistakes in XVI. And XIV made so, so many repeat mistakes from XI... not a good look.

 

[Rachel]

Despite the wall of text I wrote I already thought of more things:

• I liked how they had the Active Time Lore mechanic, but...they didn't have a a dialogue log? That would have been so great, no idea why more games don't have this simple feature
• Cid's daughter's name is Mid. Not sure how I felt about that lmao (also the game made her the catalyst for down time fetch quests to get the ship working, but they did this too much)
• Completely forgot how much it bothered me that the ship is named the Enterprise again. Like it's just weird. And, they teased at a few different points that we would get an airship but that never happens
• Holy cow I hate Gav's hair sooo much. So so much. It features three, I guess rat tails? In the back, BUT they are not spaced like one on the left, one in the middle, and one in the right. They all skew to one side. I'm getting upset just thinking about it lmao

Spoiler

I did like how they made Cid Ramuh's dominant. It was a clear throwback to the legendary Thundergod Cid, plus his full name here is Cidolfus.

Warp, yes, I didn't talk much about Benedikta here. Believe it or not I actually confused her with Annabella for a hot moment there (mostly because of the time skip). I actually just took some time to look up their faces and they look pretty similar. And yes, I agree with your take. She was an interesting character but had no chance to do anything further. Actually reminds me a little of Jihl also, if anyone even remembers her.

And yes, race is a huge issue in this game. I didn't really get into that because I am honestly unsure if I can do that topic justice. The reasons for not making it more diverse is so, so stupid.

In before DLC to flesh some of it out, I suppose.

lol yeah. The bar is so, so low after all the FFXV stuff the fans went through. I guess I congratulate them on actually having a complete story and not making the mistakes of having a movie, anime, mobile phone games, clothing lines, Cup Noodles, etc etc. My sense is Levi is definitely showing up in DLC.

XV: The entire world is dangerous, and at night shadowy monsters come out and hunt. Absolutely none of our little outposts have walls, fences or even guards, though!

Haha yeah that happens in this game too

lol at the video you posted Warp. It's true, you are expected to complete side quests for people who actively hate you for being a Bearer. Why am I supposed to save this world again? And Clive just ignores all the insults and helps them. "None of the major antagonists come across as any more evil than the average bigoted villager." And yeah, we are presented with information that the goblins are just trying to find a new home and food, and they have a language etc. And we kill them a lot. Actually reminds me of the FFXIV Beast Tribe quests.

This is Yoshida's doing. He fully believes his audience is too stupid to deal with elemental wheels and status ailments. There really isn't any of that in XIV either for the exact same reason, on top of that game being 3D but lacking verticality, limited line of sight, and positional requirements being on the verge of complete removal.

Well that's depressing.

So I'm curious - the game wants to be DMC/GoW: Ragnarok, right? Does it actually accomplish that goal? Because, at least for DMC, I can't see having proper dungeons and puzzles as a good fit. DMC basically just has (largely) linear stages you progress through, sometimes needing to locate a key or something to open a door. And that's about it.

Well I have actually never played DMC. We don't even have locating a key! Trying to remember in GoW what they did. First of all, I think about those runes you had to find within a time limit. The axe puzzles. Alfheim I think had light puzzles. Actually yeah...GoW had a lot of puzzles to break up the combat.

Everything here just sounds like it'd fit into XIV's mishmash or maybe even XV's largely unremarkable offerings, with the chorus and such.

I feel mixed about the chorus because on the one hand it does its job (making everything feel epic) but on the other hand I feel it has become a musical crutch. Yeah we had One Winged Angel and Liberi Fatali but you can make great songs without a latin chant.

Just reiterating the point that this all just sounds like problems directly carried over from XIV. CBU3 hasn't been handling XIV well for a long time, and it would appear they aren't onboarding feedback and learning if they're repeating the mistakes in XVI. And XIV made so, so many repeat mistakes from XI... not a good look.

Yes there were several times I was reminded of FFXIV. I am a UX Designer by trade so I tend to pay close attention to quality of life pitfalls and areas of improvement.

 

[Op19]

Naoki Yoshida is a misogynistic, homophobic and egotistical piece of shit. He should have been fired on that basis alone years ago, and Square Enix deserves every bit of flak they've received for his outright racist remarks about people of color and diversity being a distraction. I guarantee you XIV and XVI would be better games without his involvement

While his remarks about POC were unfortunate I don't really think he's said anything specifically racist, misogynistic or homophobic before, at least not as long as I've been following him when I started playing FF14. I can understand why they would want to avoid the POC thing given the story's deep ties to slavery and whatnot, but I think they should have been better about that. That said its definitely a pointed accusation to make about someone. FF14 did eventually add same-sex marriage into the game as an option, and has featured androgynous characters like Hythlodaeus (theres also theories about his and Emet-Selch's relationship, but unconfirmed just like Ryne and Gaia.) There are also side characters that are in a same-sex relationship as well. CBU3 also has at least one employee I know of that uses they/them pronouns. Yoshi-P's opinions, at least, haven't had any real bearing on that game if he is actually homophobic in a long time. I'd say he tries to be respectful of various cultures, but sometimes misses the mark in an evolving landscape and I think he can be forgiven for that just as we've forgiven others who have said reprehensible and worse things in the past.

Anyhow, about FF16. Its a midtier FF for me, but still very good. Id say its about an 8/10 for me. I quite enjoyed the soundtrack and the focus on smaller scale political issues for the first 3/4ths of the game before it becomes a fight to kill a god. I think Ultima was creepy and I liked their voice, but compared to other FF villains they're just sort of ok. I enjoy most of the main characters. Clive, Cid, Jill and Joshua were all great. I liked Hugo as a villain for Clive. The relationship between Clive and Jill not developing during the 5 years they were together after Cid dying was odd for sure, though, but I'm glad they finally got there. I enjoy most of the music, but Soken is much better in FF14 when he can be more diverse. Eikon battles were a fun departure from the normal gameplay, and I enjoy the DMC style action a lot too. Plan to do NG+ at some point.

 

[Raine]

While his remarks about POC were unfortunate I don't really think he's said anything specifically racist, misogynistic or homophobic before, at least not as long as I've been following him when I started playing FF14.

It's getting close to bed time, so I'll do a deeper dive later. But, in general, he's gotten away with his bullshit for so long simply by virtue of mostly doing Japanese outlets during media tours. Which is understandable to a degree because, uh, he's Japanese. But when those things get translated, and wind up looking like this...

Then one day, a jingling and jangling VIP came along (NB: Yoshi-P with his accessories) and commanded, "This isn't cute!". And so it was that the traditionally oriental Lakshmi underwent emergency beauty therapy.

-

...it's not a good look. But, and here's the thing - it kept happening. Keeps happening. Take a moment and think about how many busty, humanoid, essentially naked "monster" girls are in the game. At least two aren't busty and consequentially immediately fall into fucking eww territory.

It's not easy to find those interviews, either. Thankfully I've been ranting and raving into a small Discord server for years about this motherfucker, so provided I can remember a key word or two I can dumpster dive pretty quickly. Like, the bunny outfit - I'm not seeing the link to the thread so I'll have to dig more, but this is a straight excerpt from one of the "Can guys wear Bunnygirl outfits?" requests. This predates the "Yoshi said Trans Rights!" interview:

"In terms of values and our players, it’s a time when there’s a lot of changes in perspectives, but we can’t ignore the people who refuse to make changes in their values. There may be players who do not want to see male players wear attire that’s traditionally worn on females...We do want to respect freedom of self expression and that people want to dress the same way, but we do need to consider and be mindful of those who look at people dressed in a certain way and manage how they perceive things."

-
(^--Not where I would've found this, but did come up when Googling a line from the quote and so should be the same interview)

 

[Op19]

It's getting close to bed time, so I'll do a deeper dive later. But, in general, he's gotten away with his bullshit for so long simply by virtue of mostly doing Japanese outlets during media tours. Which is understandable to a degree because, uh, he's Japanese. But when those things get translated, and wind up looking like this...


-

...it's not a good look. But, and here's the thing - it kept happening. Keeps happening. Take a moment and think about how many busty, humanoid, essentially naked "monster" girls are in the game. At least two aren't busty and consequentially immediately fall into fucking eww territory.

It's not easy to find those interviews, either. Thankfully I've been ranting and raving into a small Discord server for years about this motherfucker, so provided I can remember a key word or two I can dumpster dive pretty quickly. Like, the bunny outfit - I'm not seeing the link to the thread so I'll have to dig more, but this is a straight excerpt from one of the "Can guys wear Bunnygirl outfits?" requests. This predates the "Yoshi said Trans Rights!" interview:


-
(^--Not where I would've found this, but did come up when Googling a line from the quote and so should be the same interview)

Regarding the Lakshmi thing, to give the benefit of the doubt, Yoshi-P being the producer and director has to think about what people playing the game might enjoy and maybe he went with the "cute" thing at first, but ultimately it seems he conceded. But I can think of several female villains (Sophia, Hydaelyn, Tsukuyomi, Endsinger, Oracle of Darkness, Edda) that don't fit the "busty almost naked" monster girl aesthetic. In fact I can barely think of any that do other than Barbarricia which is incredibly recent. not saying that they don't exist, but they certainly don't leave the impression you seem to think compared to the other female villains and characters.

As the game continues things like the bunnygirl outfits and others have become available for everyone to wear, and they're still working on it. In a culture that is as conservative as Japan is at least the game Yoshida is in charge of is becoming accomodating towards LGBTQ people and IMO that speaks pretty loud for me.

 

[Raine]

Last post on this. "Sex sells" isn't a defense against misogyny, it's participating in it. The mere fact that the man is producer and director, sits on a board overseeing the Final Fantasy IP, and is on record in at least one instance of meddling in the design of female characters should be enough to give one pause.

We'll see soon enough what female Hrothgar/not-Ronso look like. I'm not holding my breath on them being allowed to look bestial.

Spoiler: Open spoilers for FF14, marked spoilers for FF16

But I can think of several female villains (Sophia, Hydaelyn) that don't fit the "busty almost naked" monster girl aesthetic.

About that...



Oracle of Darkness fares a bit better on the "nearly naked" part, and certainly better than her counterpart, but like... she's wearing a fishnet bodysuit, platform heels, thigh-high stockings, whatever the fuck they thought they were doing with her lips. She's someone's fetish given form, and for good measure she's specifically underage. As is her counterpart.

See also: Penthesilea (boss of Eureka Pyros), Ryne-Shiva, Scathach (boss of Dun Scaith), Galatea Magna (mid-boss in Lapis Manalis)

As the game continues things like the bunnygirl outfits and others have become available for everyone to wear, and they're still working on it. In a culture that is as conservative as Japan is at least the game Yoshida is in charge of is becoming accomodating towards LGBTQ people and IMO that speaks pretty loud for me.

If it makes you happy, it makes you happy. I won't harp on about it ad-nauseam.

But just because he loosened the stance on gender-locked gear (a little; there are still items releasing that are locked) cannot, will not, absolve him of prior comments. Of current and undoubtedly future comments. Will not get me to stop busting his chops while he's overseeing the release of games like XVI.

Dion's apparently pretty cool. They can have a point for that and allowing him to actually kiss his partner even though (ending spoilers) he's apparently been killed off.

Edit: Just want to point out that I spent a lot more time trying to not come off as mean or aggressive than I did actually writing this out. I'm really not trying to browbeat anyone, I just... cannot stand Yoshida. Damn near everything he says pisses me off at this point.

 

[Raine]

Warp, yes, I didn't talk much about Benedikta here. Believe it or not I actually confused her with Annabella for a hot moment there (mostly because of the time skip). I actually just took some time to look up their faces and they look pretty similar. And yes, I agree with your take. She was an interesting character but had no chance to do anything further. Actually reminds me a little of Jihl also, if anyone even remembers her.

Yeah, I definitely remember Jihl. Who, even in a game where all of the villains were barely present, managed to stand out as being even less relevant.

I've seen the facial comparison thing crop up elsewhere, too. It's sort of like the "all anime characters look the same except for their hair" thing, except... they're ostensibly using facial capture like most other studios are these days? So did they just use one conventionally attractive woman as the base for multiple main characters (in a game that has, like... 5), or what? Would be very interested in seeing some behind-the-scenes stuff there.

lol yeah. The bar is so, so low after all the FFXV stuff the fans went through. I guess I congratulate them on actually having a complete story and not making the mistakes of having a movie, anime, mobile phone games, clothing lines, Cup Noodles, etc etc. My sense is Levi is definitely showing up in DLC.

I'm equally as surprised the game shipped complete. After most of XIII existing only in the Datalog and XV being delivered piecemeal, I was positive we'd never get one with a coherent beginning, middle and end without additional purchases/supplemental media again.

lol at the video you posted Warp. It's true, you are expected to complete side quests for people who actively hate you for being a Bearer. Why am I supposed to save this world again? And Clive just ignores all the insults and helps them. "None of the major antagonists come across as any more evil than the average bigoted villager." And yeah, we are presented with information that the goblins are just trying to find a new home and food, and they have a language etc. And we kill them a lot. Actually reminds me of the FFXIV Beast Tribe quests.

The XIV comparison is apt, yeah. Reading between the lines in XIV it was always obvious that the human-type races were in the wrong in all of those dealings, yet we merrily cut them down by the score. Even later in the game, when the humans come crawling to ask all of the Tribes for help, it's done 99% off-screen and presented as if everything is all hunky-dory. Meanwhile the clans we had been interacting with for ~8 years weren't part of that, weren't updated, nothing. Just a complete afterthought. It was mostly similar in XI as well.

The quest in the video where you "help" the man save his son was just... dumb. Beyond dumb. And basically 100% mirrors Derplander's experience with Laurentius Daye in XIV. This type of RPG story just doesn't work; you can't give your player zero agency while also have a stoic, borderline mute protagonist (within the context of the quest) that just goes along with everything.

Well I have actually never played DMC.

We don't even have locating a key! Trying to remember in GoW what they did. First of all, I think about those runes you had to find within a time limit. The axe puzzles. Alfheim I think had light puzzles. Actually yeah...GoW had a lot of puzzles to break up the combat.

Yeah, even the old GoW games were full of puzzles. Lots of downtime in them too, but they weren't terribly fast-paced. Wasn't any backtracking, and weren't really set up in a "select a stage" kind of way like DMC is.

So, it sounds like they sort of missed the mark on both fronts? I'm sure it'll take more time before there are enough opinions out in the wild to know if "Final Fantasy Mode" at least manages to appeal to DMC/Character Action fans. It's still just crazy to me that they thought locking that behind completing the game once was a good idea.

 

[Rachel]

I cannot believe how many things I forgot to mention despite the wall of the text, I keep thinking of more things

Warp I need you to watch this video whenever you can (if you are not aware of this already)

I just...jesus christ lmao

Also, that video you linked to earlier apparently told YouTube to bring the channel into my algorithm...THIS INTRO

I PROBABLY CHOKED ON A DRINK WHEN HE SAID THAT IN GAME WHAT IS THAT LINE SOMEONE GREENLIT THAT

From the point of the video I was also reflecting on what happened for me with FFXIV because I had three friends irl who played FFXIV and NONE of them could get past post ARR. And this was after the patch that compressed it!! I tried to tell them, just get to Heavensward...but none of them made it...

So anyway, I did decide to try Final Fantasy mode. I'm not sure why. Might abandon it. But it reminded me of some other things:

• There's a few times where a sparkly looking thing is over a ledge that you can't access. So you need to find a way to reach that spot to get the loot. Both times I have done this since restarting, it ended up being...a potion.
• I completely forgot that some of the mobs guard. When they did it I actually forgot what it is they were doing because that mechanic is dropped in favor of a mage casting protect on them for the rest of the game.
• THEY JUST STAND THERE! I mentioned this already but it bothers me so much, I whale on a regular mob soldier and THE REST JUST WATCH ME DO THAT!

but we can’t ignore the people who refuse to make changes in their values.

lol why not yikes (...okay. I understand I'm in a Western culture. I feel like they want to have it both ways and are doing their best to hedge).

Yeah, I definitely remember Jihl. Who, even in a game where all of the villains were barely present, managed to stand out as being even less relevant.

I remember really looking forward to her but I think the trailers used almost every possible scene with her to make it seem like she had a much more elevated screen presence.

The quest in the video where you "help" the man save his son was just... dumb. Beyond dumb. And basically 100% mirrors Derplander's experience with Laurentius Daye in XIV. This type of RPG story just doesn't work; you can't give your player zero agency while also have a stoic, borderline mute protagonist (within the context of the quest) that just goes along with everything.

Oh I completely forgot to mention in here to you that I think Clive looks basically like Derplander

Thinking about it, when I listed out my original four elements that I believe make a Final Fantasy game, I would like to append one item: the stakes are that you are saving the world. And you WANT to save the world. The game helps you understand that the world is worth saving. The people are worth saving. To have doubt about that in a Final Fantasy game is a yikes.

I am really hoping there are some bonus hunts in this mode. I've been thinking about why I love FF12 so much. The fans are pretty divided on it. Here is what I remember:

• Obviously the plot falters in some parts and Vaan is very eh
• I remember the hunts fondly. Monteblanc is cool. You couldn't just button mash, you had to think. And, you also had to find the hunt. Sometimes you even needed to have certain weather conditions! Not sure where a FFXVI hunt location is? Just look for the very obvious boss arena area around where the board said.
• I also remember the rare game. That was pretty cool to stumble upon.
• Optional areas! Will never forgot Necrohol of Nabudis. 16 doesn't have any optional area that I am aware of, other than you can turn left in this open field and maybe find a treasure or the challenge obelisk things.
• The Esper fights, many optional. Just remember those being epic.
• I liked using whatever that limit break was called. I actually rarely use the LB in FFXVI because I am trying to set something up with the Eikon commands
• I think I generally liked the license board
• I still remember the Tomb of Raithwall. FFXVI has nothing like it. Just an example of a dungeon. Definitely don't miss the crystal dungeon though

 

[Raine]

Warp I need you to watch this video whenever you can (if you are not aware of this already)

I just...jesus christ lmao

Mmhm. Wasn't aware of it, but also I can't say that I'm super surprised. After all, when Ninja Theory made DmC (starring Donte ) they royally fucked up the points/grading thing too. That's why I think it was important to make the distinction that Ryota Suzuki wasn't the combat developer for DMC5, but rather a combat developer.

In entirely unrelated news, it amuses me that MrHappy had to branch out in order to keep doing content. My word did XVI eat a ton of XIV's available resources.

Also, that video you linked to earlier apparently told YouTube to bring the channel into my algorithm...THIS INTRO

I PROBABLY CHOKED ON A DRINK WHEN HE SAID THAT IN GAME WHAT IS THAT LINE SOMEONE GREENLIT THAT

Oh... yeeeah, YouTube likes doing that. Sterling isn't, uh, work safe, but I'll be damned if they aren't amusing.

I don't think Square's ever going to fully adjust to games having spoken dialogue! 'Cause, uh, there are so, so many awkward things like this that crop up.

From the point of the video I was also reflecting on what happened for me with FFXIV because I had three friends irl who played FFXIV and NONE of them could get past post ARR. And this was after the patch that compressed it!! I tried to tell them, just get to Heavensward...but none of them made it...

Indeed. And I wouldn't even necessarily call 2.1~2.3 the worst of it, it's just arguably longer and comes after the player has been bodied multiple times. There's the Titan Arc from lv30~34, the Garuda/Enterprise Crystals in the early 40's, Operation: Archon that stalls out the EXP between lv46 and lv49/50. So many things that were a problem before, that just have gotten worse over time. Even with them going back and pruning things.

And at this point all of HW is broken. The stat squish trivialized absolutely every portion of it. So, outside of story, you're also just... y'know, bored for over 100 hours. And then you hit Stormblood which, I think, most generally agree is the worst of the expansions by a good margin.

There's a few times where a sparkly looking thing is over a ledge that you can't access. So you need to find a way to reach that spot to get the loot. Both times I have done this since restarting, it ended up being...a potion.

Kinda reminds me of XV there. After the first hour I don't think I bothered opening chests for the rest of either of my playthroughs, because it was all just random junk. And potions. So, junk.

THEY JUST STAND THERE! I mentioned this already but it bothers me so much, I whale on a regular mob soldier and THE REST JUST WATCH ME DO THAT!

Ah! Yes, actually, this was something I was meaning to ask but forgot about. Because everything I had seen made it look like the game/combat was really geared towards 1v1, but I didn't think the game would do that for the whole runtime. Having enemies sit around doing nothing is... one way to address that, I suppose.

lol why not yikes (...okay. I understand I'm in a Western culture. I feel like they want to have it both ways and are doing their best to hedge).

Exactly. I'll behave myself here on GWF for the most part, but nah, I ain't about that life. Not going to sit here and worry about the thoughts and feelings of outwardly, openly bigoted people. Especially as an equal consideration with folk what just want to be horny-on-main gay catbois.

Not sure where a FFXVI hunt location is? Just look for the very obvious boss arena area around where the board said.

...

Of all the fucking things to imitate from XIV. WTF. That shit's so, so bad in XIV. Everything's a damn square, rectangle or circle and rarely does any of it matter.

I think I generally liked the license board

KILL IT WITH FIIIRE

 

[Benzine]

I'm not sure if someone answered you, but you can buy multiple items at once, can't you? I'm not finished yet (so didn't read the spoilers and very quickly went through the other posts), but you can use the left and right buttons to select potion amounts.

 

[The Eye in the Sky!]

I didn't read any of your spoilers because I am only 85% done or so... but I absolutely love the game so far. I'm not sure if it is a complete lack of faith in the franchise at this point since its been like 15 years since they made a good one in my eyes, but I love this game.

It probably helps that I have switched to liking 3rd person action games like God of War, Horizon and Uncharted much more than RPG but this game has scratched an itch in the series and genre that I have not had scratched in over a decade. The characters and story telling is entertaining and the battle system is fun to play (though they overestimate how good it is because I grow so tired of how long some of the battles are).

I don't want to spoil where I am so I ill say I just defeated the "last king" but I've been enjoying the game so much.

I agree that some game design choices make no sense and are just superfluous, but I am in love with the story, world, characters, and music. I have heard the ending is not great so I will hold my judgement, but right now this slots in as one of my favorite in the series. It's still behind 9, 7, 6, 4 and maybe 10... but that's not bad company.

 

[The Eye in the Sky!]

I just beat the game last night and my opinion stands. I thought it was a fantastic game that needed more RPG elements or reasons to explore. Gameplay was hollow but I loved the narrative and characters. I didn't like the pacing loop of story sequence > bunch of tedious side quests > story sequence, but I did like the world building in those side quests. They just weren't fun, and towards the end I was over the long drawn out fights. One phase of the final boss was the worst part of the game to me... I could not even see where attacks were coming from and it was so long.

I'm trying to figure out where it lands in my list, but being in a different era of gaming, age, priorities in life. It's clearly behind 9, 7, 6, Tactics, 4, 10... possibly 8. But I'd place it ahead of 1, 2, 5, 12, 13, 15. Middle of the road. Characters wise it's closer to the top. Gameplay is closer to the bottom.

 

[Raine]

Hearing the gameplay critique is interesting, considering that's all they wanted to talk about prior to release. And currently still think it's strong enough to carry the game through an 18-month plan, which would presumably involve DLC. Outside of combat, I think the quest structure and pacing really is just a function of the team themselves - they don't know how to make stuff good organically, which is why their MMO follows an extraordinarily rigid schedule and design ethos.

So what of it, @Rachel @The Eye in the Sky!, would you buy (fairly priced) DLC? Assuming it's more like XV DLC and less like, say, Strangers of Paradise DLC - the latter being combat-oriented and based on/forcing the higher difficulty setting.

 

[Rachel]

Spoiler

Yes. About my musings earlier regarding the medicine girl and why her thread ended abruptly, and that annoyed me, you probably have already heard that her name in the game files translates to something about water. She is Levi's dominant. And even if that happens not to be true, I still want to see Levi and they teed that up.

KILL IT WITH FIIIRE

Play the international version or zodiac version or whatever

 

[TD]

I always kinda liked XII to begin with, but Zodiac made me really like it.

 

[The Eye in the Sky!]

I would get DLC but I would not be happy about it because I know how much fighting would be involved. The battle system is cool, don't get me wrong, but once you hit a certain point of the game, all battles become so same-y that it's boring.

The Medicine Girl I found really weird since she shows up in the history-thing that Vivienne does, and it felt like something more would happen there, but it doesn't.

 

[Raine]

I would get DLC but I would not be happy about it because I know how much fighting would be involved. The battle system is cool, don't get me wrong, but once you hit a certain point of the game, all battles become so same-y that it's boring.

You think that's more a function of enemy variety not being enough, or just the reliance on the Stagger mechanic? Any desire to try the Final Fantasy Mode?

[spoilers]

Is there a good place during the narrative this could get slotted in? Or would either the time skip or something post-game be more likely?

Play the international version or zodiac version or whatever

It's on the list! Especially so now that Xbox ports of Pixel Remaster and XVI may be in the cards after that super awkward handshake between Phil Spencer, Yoshi-P and the new CEO.

 

[Rachel]

Spoiler

My guess is it is going to explain how Clyde washed up on the beach

Just a guess though

 

[VashTheStampede]

Ok I'm something like 65% through the game so far. For the first chunk of the game I was VERY much into it. I do think, story-wise, it has the strongest start to any FF game.

Weirdly, at this point in the game it's mainly the combat (that and the ridiculously over the top boss fights) that's keeping me invested. This shocks me because I'm one of those people that REALLY dislikes that the series has strayed from turn based combat.

But what prompted me to make a post here is to see if anyone else noticed the absolutely brain-dead way the story progresses at times.

"We have to go to Destination. But to get to Destination, we have to go through Place. Oh no, we cannot get through Place. But that's okay, let's talk to person in charge of Place. Person in charge of Place needs us to talk to these 3 people and do this task. Okay now we can get through Place!"

This has now happened at LEAST 3 separate times and is so damn lazy.

I went from at one point feeling like the game could end up amongst the best in the series to just wanting to play more Baldur's Gate III instead...

 

[Raine]

Weirdly, at this point in the game it's mainly the combat (that and the ridiculously over the top boss fights) that's keeping me invested. This shocks me because I'm one of those people that REALLY dislikes that the series has strayed from turn based combat.

I'll bitch and moan about Square 'til I'm blue in the face, but being proactive and "poaching" Ryota Suzuki was the right call. None of their internal combat developers have the chops to carry a full blown action (/Character Action/J-Action) game. And even here, it seems, a single person may not have been enough to stave off certain other recurring issues/impulses like HP sponge syndrome.

Do you have any experience with the likes of Devil May Cry, Bayonetta and/or OG God of War?

But what prompted me to make a post here is to see if anyone else noticed the absolutely brain-dead way the story progresses at times. ... This has now happened at LEAST 3 separate times and is so damn lazy.

This is chiefly a CBU3 issue, and is my biggest pet peeve with XIV. The core of the team, ostensibly, has only worked on MMOs for upwards of 23 years now. They literally do not know how to organically design, structure and pace anything.

But it also seems to just be a Square in general problem now, because XV's quest structure is also pretty bad and by all accounts VIIR is obscenely padded and has, minimally, garbage tier side quests.

 

[Benzine]

Ok I'm something like 65% through the game so far. For the first chunk of the game I was VERY much into it. I do think, story-wise, it has the strongest start to any FF game.

Weirdly, at this point in the game it's mainly the combat (that and the ridiculously over the top boss fights) that's keeping me invested. This shocks me because I'm one of those people that REALLY dislikes that the series has strayed from turn based combat.

But what prompted me to make a post here is to see if anyone else noticed the absolutely brain-dead way the story progresses at times.

"We have to go to Destination. But to get to Destination, we have to go through Place. Oh no, we cannot get through Place. But that's okay, let's talk to person in charge of Place. Person in charge of Place needs us to talk to these 3 people and do this task. Okay now we can get through Place!"

This has now happened at LEAST 3 separate times and is so damn lazy.

I went from at one point feeling like the game could end up amongst the best in the series to just wanting to play more Baldur's Gate III instead...

And the fighting is just too easy anyway as well. I find it just a bit dull and boring. It feels nice enough though, and I will finish it.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Do you have any experience with the likes of Devil May Cry, Bayonetta and/or OG God of War?


This is chiefly a CBU3 issue, and is my biggest pet peeve with XIV. The core of the team, ostensibly, has only worked on MMOs for upwards of 23 years now. They literally do not know how to organically design, structure and pace anything.

But it also seems to just be a Square in general problem now, because XV's quest structure is also pretty bad and by all accounts VIIR is obscenely padded and has, minimally, garbage tier side quests.

1. I'm familiar with the first and third but never played Bayo. Didn't get too into the games precisely because I didn't love the combat. That's part of the reason I'm so surprised this one clicks with me.

2. See, that's why I could never get into XIV, even with all my friends raving about how great it is. It just feels like WoW but with new characters I don't have any attachment to, so I might as well go back to WoW.

3. Aaaaand that's EXACTLY why I've never been able to bring myself to finish FF7R. I really would like to know what the fuck is going on with the plot compared to the original but good GODDESS it is padded and boring between story beats.

 

[Raine]

1. I'm familiar with the first and third but never played Bayo. Didn't get too into the games precisely because I didn't love the combat. That's part of the reason I'm so surprised this one clicks with me.

Huh, interesting! DMC ain't exactly the most welcoming of series difficulty-wise, admittedly, especially the original PS2 releases. But I would've suspected some carryover would occur... which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm gonna have to actually play the silly thing myself to get an answer at this rate.

2. See, that's why I could never get into XIV, even with all my friends raving about how great it is. It just feels like WoW but with new characters I don't have any attachment to, so I might as well go back to WoW.

I've never played or really looked at WoW, so unfortunately I couldn't say how similar they actually are. Similar situation with not having touched EQ to have the point of comparison for XI.

But, I can say: XIV isn't great. A Realm Reborn is extraordinarily medicore - slow to start, lots of fetch questing derailing the story constantly, actual story is like "missed the first 20 minutes but first episode was okay" at best. The highlight of the experience is the first expansion, Heavensward. Everything goes off the rails after that and it's simply a matter of which of the next three expansions kills the singular narrative through-line for you, not if one will. Even if people enjoyed Heavenward (~120 hours) or Shadowbringers (~200 hours), they've put up with a metric ton of garbage to get to that point. There are no self-contained stories so it's not possible to understand or enjoy anything in isolation.

Also the gameplay is too basic and easy for anyone not completely new to MMOs (or games period) - and the low-level experience gets worse and worse every expansion - and the quest design, as mentioned, is horrid.

 

[Raine]

vvv This video apparently contains spoilers, because Square vvv

 

[Raine]

Article:

Update 09/03/23 at 12:20 a.m.: Here are the patch notes for the version 1.10 update, which is now available:

We announce the release of update 1.10, which makes a number of improvements to the game.

This update adds a feature that allows you to change certain characters’ appearances, as well as making several adjustments to game balance, including an update to how scores are calculated in Arcade Mode.

It also fixes some issues and adds new functionality based on player feedback. We recommend that you install this update before playing Final Fantasy XVI.

This update:

Spoiler: More for space reasons than actual spoilers, but exercise caution

• Adds an Appearance feature to the Arete Stone in the hideaway.
  • This allows you to change the costumes of several characters, including Clive.
  • It also allows you to change the appearance of the weapon Clive wields to that of any weapon previously obtained.
  • This feature is unlocked after progressing to a certain point in the story, and is not available at the start of a New Game+ playthrough until the same point is reached.
  • Please note that this feature is disabled in some scenes in order to maintain loading speed.
• Awards each player an onion sword, which can be claimed by accessing Redeemable Items from the System menu.
  • This allows Clive to wield the favored blade of the Warriors of Light, heroes of Final Fantasy III.
  • The Redeemable Items feature is unlocked after progressing to a certain point in the story.
  • The onion sword has the same attributes as the other downloadable weapons, Braveheart and the blood sword.
• Reduces the time after a successful parry at which Eikonic abilities can be activated.
• Increases the time small enemies remain vulnerable to follow-up attacks after being lifted into the air by the player, allowing for easier aerial combos.
• Adds ability cooldown times to the relevant Details pages in the Abilities menu, including information on how these are affected by currently equipped accessories.
• Makes the following changes to the training options menu in the Arete Stone’s Hall of Virtue:
  • Adds several options regarding Torgal’s behavior.
  • Adds an option to restart the simulation from the original settings.
  • Fixes some text issues.
• Makes the following changes to Arcade Mode:
  • Adds a time limit to each stage.
    • This change is intended to correct an issue wherein certain abilities could be used to continually amass points over time, allowing for scores greater than envisioned.
    • You can continue to play as normal after the time limit is exceeded, but any further actions will not add to your score.
  • Reduces the scores awarded by the abilities Rime and Gouge.
    • Please note that in this and future updates, we plan to adjust the scoring system in order to reward the creative chaining of multiple abilities. We will continue to assess how scores in Arcade Mode are calculated in order to maintain its challenge.
  • Introduces a new leaderboard for players who have this update installed. Players who do not install the update can continue to view and record their high scores to the old leaderboard.
    • After installing this update, you will no longer be able to view or record high scores to the old leaderboard. However, scores recorded to the previous leaderboard will not be deleted. We plan to make previous leaderboards visible to all players in a future update.
• Makes the following changes to the System menu:
  • Adds an Adaptive Triggers option to the Game Settings menu, which allows you to turn the wireless controller’s trigger effect function on or off.
  • Adds a Target Cycle option to the Game Settings menu, which allows you to choose one of four different methods of changing targets while locked on to an enemy.
  • Adjusts the functionality of the Player Follow (Attack) option in the Camera Settings menu, in order to correct an issue wherein the camera position would reset after some attacks even when this option was turned off.
  • Adds a Controller Volume option to the Sound Settings menu, which allows you to adjust the volume of sound effects played through the wireless controller’s speaker.
  • Adjusts the functionality of the Visual Alerts option in the Sound Settings menu, so that a preview of the alerts is displayed when the setting is turned on, and a confirmation dialog appears when the setting is changed.
  • Fixes some text issues.
• Fixes the following issues:
  • An issue wherein enemies’ actions did not trigger correctly in boss encounters under certain conditions.
  • An issue wherein the collision detection threshold could be crossed in boss encounters under certain conditions.
  • An issue wherein certain characters’ actions did not trigger correctly.
  • An issue wherein notorious marks did not appear under certain conditions.
  • An issue wherein notorious marks appeared in different locations to that indicated on the hunt board. – An issue wherein holding down the touch pad button would display the local map when the Wireless Controller Layout option was set to Type F.
  • An issue wherein certain weapons could not be crafted in Final Fantasy mode, as the materials required to craft them were not available in that mode.
  • A multi-language issue wherein certain entries in The Thousand Tomes could not be found using the Search by Name function.
  • An issue wherein game progress was not correctly carried over when transferring save data from the demo version to the full version.
  • Several minor text issues.

Source: https://www.gematsu.com/2023/09/final-fantasy-xvi-two-paid-dlcs-and-pc-version-in-development-free-update-now-available

 

[Rachel]

Does this mean the MrHappy video I linked to earlier, those problems are fixed

 

[Raine]

Does this mean the MrHappy video I linked to earlier, those problems are fixed

Presumably, yeah. Or been replaced with different problems.

It's Square, so kind of flip a coin on that one.

 

[GwJumpman]

Didn't read the OP because I'm still playing but I was having a really hard time getting through XVI but I feel like I reached the "end" of the tutorial section when Clive becomes Cid. It felt really slow before that and really hand-holdy but now that the Hunt board is open, I've got my Chocobo, and 3 special movesets available, the game's starting to come together and feel more fluid. It's a shame it took like 10 hours to get to this point but I feel like I'm finally starting to have some fun.

 

[Rachel]

since this is bumped I'll mention here Ben Starr is doing some sort of D&D project with some other actors, such as Geralt's VA. That's kinda interesting

 

[Raine]

Amazon has it for $40 for Black Friday.

...Do I do it?

 

[VashTheStampede]

I think that's a decent price for it, personally.

There's a good game hidden in there amongst all the padding and stretching out.

 

[Raine]

You're a terrible influence, Vash.

I pushed the button. Hootin' and hollerin' Soon™.

But not too soon 'cause I'm still procrastinating getting back to Armored Core 6, starting the Soulsbornes, etc, etc, etc

 

[Raine]

It's $56.09 (oddly specific) in monoply Canadian money. It's on my "one day I'll buy it" list but that is not today.

Yeah, I hear ya. Honestly I would prefer to do $20 or bust, but like... I'mma be skipping Black Friday entirely at that rate from the looks of it. Just absolutely dreadful "deals." ...With an asterisk. Should probably make a thread or something, maybe.

Like I need to actually buy a PS5, too, but all I'm seeing is standard MSRP ($500) just with free digital Spider-Man 2. Can we just skip to the part where I get the console for 430-450 Sony?

Meanwhile you can tell Microsoft is still in dead last 'cause there are crazy Series X deals everywhere!

 

[TD]

Yeah, I hear ya. Honestly I would prefer to do $20 or bust, but like... I'mma be skipping Black Friday entirely at that rate from the looks of it. Just absolutely dreadful "deals." ...With an asterisk. Should probably make a thread or something, maybe.

Like I need to actually buy a PS5, too, but all I'm seeing is standard MSRP ($500) just with free digital Spider-Man 2. Can we just skip to the part where I get the console for 430-450 Sony?

Meanwhile you can tell Microsoft is still in dead last 'cause there are crazy Series X deals everywhere!

This obsession with bundling the consoles with games needs to stop. I hate that it has become such a norm.

I was lucky enough that I was able to buy JUST the console, but I was one of those crazies who got it on release, and was actively watching for stock updates so I could order it.

 

[Raine]

I was lucky enough that I was able to buy JUST the console, but I was one of those crazies who got it on release, and was actively watching for stock updates so I could order it.

I've yet to do any sort of digital pre-order suffering. Kind of had my fill of that in general after freezing my ass off getting a Wii, and that was a couple years after freezing to get a PS2. Why can't you fuckers release this shit during, like, spring or something?!

But yeah, I've never really seen the appeal of bundles myself. I get why retailers do them, but it's generally just artificially boosting the price of the console with something most people are probably going to never use or just sell to get the "proper" discount.

 

[shortkut]

The last good bundle was NES with the SMB1/duck hunt combo cartridge and light gun accessory

 

[Raine]

Beware of spoilers, most likely. For both the base game AND the DLC itself, because Square.





​

Article:

As the sun sets over the land of Valisthea, strange, dark crystals begin to circulate on the black market. Could they be the sinister fruit of a long-slumbering Mothercrystal—one the world never knew existed?
Setting out in search of answers, Clive and company encounter a group of suspicious traders. Their trail leads them to a long-abandoned Fallen tower known as the Sagespire and the terrible secrets that await within...

New Story Quest Unlock Conditions
The new quest will become available after unlocking Origin as a destination on the world map and completing the quests "Where There's a Will" and "Priceless."

Special Bonuses
- Buster Sword
Wield Cloud Strife's iconic weapon from FINAL FANTASY VII.
- Away (1987) Orchestrion Roll
Liven up the hideaway with a new background music track.

To enjoy this DLC content, you must have the FINAL FANTASY XVI base game installed. An internet connection is also required in order to update the base game to the latest version.

Some bundles include this DLC with the base game. Please be sure that you do not already own this DLC before purchasing.

Source: https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0082-PPSA10664_00-ADDCONT000000200

 

[Rachel]

I am honestly not sure how I feel about the DLC? I guess I will probably play it at some point, just not super excited. I also don't remember where I ended in the story since I was in the middle of new game plus.

I don't remember what Origin even is, isn't that sad? Is that the end area?

Did anyone get it? Raine did you ever play the game?

 

[Raine]

I don't remember what Origin even is, isn't that sad? Is that the end area?

Sounds like me and XV. I'm telling you, I've done everything in that game 100% twice over but I can't tell you anything about it and don't feel like I finished it.

According to IGN Origin is:

Back to Their Origin is the fourty-sixth main quest in Final Fantasy 16, where you make final preparations at the Hideaway before setting off for the final mission - Infiltrate Origin and kill Ultima for good.

So yeah, probably!

Did anyone get it? Raine did you ever play the game?

I've only used my spiffy new PS5 for XIV and PSO2 so far. My copy of XVI came in late last week, but I'm not quite sure where exactly my priorities are gaming-wise just yet. Besides having a Certified Stupid™ project in the works!

 

[TD]

So this is obviously an old thread but I finally got around to playing a chunk of it. I'm happy I never bought it, I was able to borrow it from my library. I just returned it after having it for 12 days. According to PS5, game progress is at 70% and I just finished the Eikon battle with Bahamut.

Spoiler: Random Spoilery Thoughts with no Organization

Something about this game just isn't connecting with me. I don't find it an engaging game. I suppose if I were to try and explain why - it's likely due to what I perceive as being overly bloated, too much filler, and trying to do too many things that it just ends up feeling mediocre. If they trimmed the fat and tightened it up by literally removing like 50% of the monotony, this could actually be a REALLY good game.

Combat feels bland and easy. I don't know if this is swayed by my Soulslike experience but to this point - nothing has felt challenging and I've never felt in danger. I had the trophy pop on like the second boss for killing a boss without taking damage. From my understanding, there's a harder difficulty locked behind NG+, seems like a big miss for a game of this length.

The game started off super strong in that I was so curious in the first couple hours, and it fell off pretty suddenly. Quest structure for even the main quest has way too much of run to these three people to get info, okay now go talk to this person. It's the type of stuff I may expect out of a side quest but not repeatedly through the main game quests!?

The characters - well my favourite started as Benedikta and well yeah. At this point I'm not sure I really care about any of the characters which is a shame because some of the voice acting and character animation is so well done it's just... I don't know. I think what I might chalk it up to is a lack of a proper party system where the characters interact with eachother? Like even Clive and Joshua - I don't really care? Which is weird cause I did it the very beginning of the game, but now I'm just not interested. I want to like Jill too, but I don't. Then Mid shows up and I'm like whoa okay who's this? I loved her voice acting, but there was like one quest, nothing really about her, and that's it. It's like they went for volume of sub-characters and the quality suffered as a result because none of them end up being established or flushed out. Not what I expect in an FF game.

The eikon battles are kind of cool, I guess. Like, I don't hate them but I don't love them? It's a bit weird that they were billed as this big thing and I've experienced... 3? Which cinematically they are objectively very well done.

Um. Oh the abilities tree!? I'm literally at a point where I'm just sitting on unused points because there's no point. Making the only benefit of mastering eikon abilities being that they can be equipped to any eikon seems like a very underwhelming benefit.

Gear and accessories is very bland and disappointing.

I will definitely borrow it again from the library to finish it because honestly my completionist brain needs to.

It may seem like I'm shitting on the game and I guess in some ways I kind of am, but it also is coming from a place where I see so much potential there that was ruined in the execution because with a few things this could be an actually great game and I've always thought of FF fondly so I want it to be so much more than this.

At this point I'd probably give it a 6/10 and put it only above XIII (not counting XI or XIV which I haven't played).

I don't foresee the final 30% skewing this too much but we'll see.