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U.S.A. Joe Manchin registering as an independent

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No word on if he'll run for Senate or Governor as an independent yet, but he already said he wouldn't run as a dem.

If he does it'll be the only chance the Dems have at not instantly giving the seat to the Republicans...so there's going to be lots of pressure to get him to do it. Even though he's been a thorn in the side of the caucus for a while, he'd still be preferred to Jim Justice.
 

Raine

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Don't really have anything to add - Manchin and Sinema are already persona non grata - but there's marginally little difference between an Independent Manchin and an "actual" Republican if you ask me.

Dems going hard on the cope for this one.

The people of West Virginia generally deserve better than either of these fuckwits, though.
 
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Don't really have anything to add - Manchin and Sinema are already persona non grata - but there's marginally little difference between an Independent Manchin and an "actual" Republican if you ask me.

Dems going hard on the cope for this one.

The people of West Virginia generally deserve better than either of these fuckwits, though.
Sinema is already definitely gone.

An independent Manchin who caucuses with the Dems would give a little more flexibility in terms of what needs to happen to keep the majority. Right now with his seat being written off as a loss there's no room at all (there is a 0% chance the Dems will pick up any new seats, and a realistic chance to lose one or more other than WV).
 

Raine

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An independent Manchin who caucuses with the Dems would give a little more flexibility in terms of what needs to happen to keep the majority.
For sure, though given some of the things the man chose to get in the way of I simply cannot envision this being an actual reality? In the same way one can never count on "Moderate" Republicans to do the right thing, I just don't see a Manchin, free of having to kowtow to the whims of something like the DNC for fundraising/backing purposes, actually caucusing with the Democrats.

Spending time and money on Manchin, then, also just seems like it would be a fool's errand? Yes, Dems need the seat. Yes, Manchin at face value has the greatest odds of achieving that. But cue standard poo-pooing about the party having had multiple years to try coming up with a viable alternative. But shit, maybe West Virginia wouldn't be a goddamn red state to begin with if Dems gave the slightest of fucks - the same way they've seemingly gone and lost the likes of Ohio. Most everyone understands Republicans are lying to them, but they at least paint a pretty picture whilst doing so. :shake
 

Mark

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The people of West Virginia generally deserve better than either of these fuckwits, though.

This. Everyone I know from that state has been suffering for a looong time. We’re talking generations of families that haven’t recovered from the bust in the mining industry there, and then they’re on the third and fourth generation affected by the pill mills. WV has been circling the drain for a while in terms of overall population, their government keeps the casinos up and running and the roads leading to them, dumps the money where they’re redeveloping, and continues to milk their taxpayers for more. It’s a sad state of affairs anywhere in Smalltown, WV.
 
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This. Everyone I know from that state has been suffering for a looong time. We’re talking generations of families that haven’t recovered from the bust in the mining industry there, and then they’re on the third and fourth generation affected by the pill mills. WV has been circling the drain for a while in terms of overall population, their government keeps the casinos up and running and the roads leading to them, dumps the money where they’re redeveloping, and continues to milk their taxpayers for more. It’s a sad state of affairs anywhere in Smalltown, WV.
Maybe they should stop supporting big business loving Republicans then? I don't understand why the hard working people of right wing states continue to think the Republicans give a damn about them? I'm not saying Dems do, I'm not that naive, but Republicans would sell their own children for the NRA, Comcast, Enron or one of these other major political donor companies to support their campaigns. And why we continue to see the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.
 

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Maybe they should stop supporting big business loving Republicans then? I don't understand why the hard working people of right wing states continue to think the Republicans give a damn about them? I'm not saying Dems do, I'm not that naive, but Republicans would sell their own children for the NRA, Comcast, Enron or one of these other major political donor companies to support their campaigns. And why we continue to see the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.

It’s not always that easy. Think of a smaller scale to the presidential election… what do you think the pool of candidates really looks like in states like that? Then, if you factor in the educational system, half the people don’t even realize that they're being bullshitted.
 
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It’s not always that easy. Think of a smaller scale to the presidential election… what do you think the pool of candidates really looks like in states like that? Then, if you factor in the educational system, half the people don’t even realize that they're being bullshitted.
I get it... and it's why political candidates are able to thrive where they are. Take Marjorie Taylor Green. How on Earth does anyone think she is a good congresswoman?
 

Mark

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I get it... and it's why political candidates are able to thrive where they are. Take Marjorie Taylor Green. How on Earth does anyone think she is a good congresswoman?

Exactly. It’s kinda like the opposite of why people that live in deep and historically blue cities flinch when we hear people in newer blue cities talk certain issues. We know better when it comes to certain policies. Those folks? They’re prey for politicians, they don’t necessarily understand the garbage being thrown their way. Rust belt republicans are like southern democrats in that respect, they both prey on ignorance.
 
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There is idiocy everywhere though.

Look in South Africa, where 15% of people thought electing Jacob Zuma was a good idea despite him being a corrupt moron who was ineligible for the presidency due to a stint in prison for contempt of court. Or India, where tomorrow it will most likely be confirmed that the demagogue Narendra Modi will be handily re-elected.
 
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Mark

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There is idiocy everywhere though.

This. We are eternally and consistently surrounded by the dumb. That’s why it’s so important to not solely focus on one’s opposing political party, because then they become susceptible to being duped by their own. Red states can’t shit on blue states too much, because they have a whole slew of their own issues to contend with that they aren’t even acknowledging, and vice-versa.
 

Raine

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Maybe they should stop supporting big business loving Republicans then? I don't understand why the hard working people of right wing states continue to think the Republicans give a damn about them?
They don't genuinely believe that they will, they keep voting Republican because Republicans are typically the only ones blowing smoke up their asses about how Tomorrow Will Be Better™. Tomorrow won't be better - more young people will come of age and immediately leave, more people will die from overdoses, more jobs will be lost and more people will become reliant upon wholly inadequate State and Federal benefits - but people can't (and shouldn't have to, TBQH) accept that reality.

Republicans do the Fascist thing, talking about how they'll rewind the clock to allegedly better days. As if, you know, they could even if they wanted to. The Rust Belt was abandoned, nothing of particular merit or value was ever brought in to replace all those lost jobs. If you move a bit north you reach my old stomping grounds, home to things like the Lordstown Assembly plant which experienced its own brand of hell as compact cars died a miserable death with everything being pushed bigger (in part because of own-goal, well-meaning legislation WRT emissions) and now we have the inevitable switch to EVs to contend with.

What replaced steel? Nothing. What replaced factory jobs? Nothing. What's going to replace coal mining/processing? Nothing. What're truck drivers going to do if/when automation takes over? Nothing. All the farms that can't repair their own machinery, that are staring down potential (late) legislation to curb carbon emissions? Nothing! What are all the people that had to fall back on retail grunt jobs going to do as more and more people shop online and malls/brick and mortar close, more and more locations move to self-/auto-checkout, etc? Absolutely, fucking, nothing.

That's what the Democrats routinely fall flat on. The messaging ain't great, but the fact that when the party can even be bothered to push forward critical legislation they don't even pretend to invest in or contend with the invariable fallout of taking away people's livelihoods and not replacing it with anything else? That's the killer. West Virginia, Ohio, (western) Pennsylvania, Michigan - some areas hurt a lot more than others, but the entire region ain't been doing well for a long time.

...On top of the bigotry, of course.

Joe Manchin sucks because he's, y'know, firmly in the pocket of the coal and oil industry lobbyists. But that's... uh, sort of the point I guess.

This. We are eternally and consistently surrounded by the dumb. That’s why it’s so important to not solely focus on one’s opposing political party, because then they become susceptible to being duped by their own. Red states can’t shit on blue states too much, because they have a whole slew of their own issues to contend with that they aren’t even acknowledging, and vice-versa.
Red states, per the above, are just miserable cesspools. "Lower taxes!" is their rallying cry which means there's little to no money available for essential shit, much less trying to invest in and build a brighter tomorrow. And, invariably, all red states are basically completely reliant on Federal funding that comes from a handful of blue states to keep their populaces from... well, starving to death really.

Entire thing's fucked. You'd think eating the rich would be a more popular sentiment, but we gotta focus on the real important stuff like uhh... sports, or bathrooms, or which color suit the President is wearing today instead. :shrug

/rant lol
 
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Mark

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Red states, per the above, are just miserable cesspools. "Lower taxes!" is their rallying cry which means there's little to no money available for essential shit, much less trying to invest in and build a brighter tomorrow. And, invariably, all red states are basically completely reliant on Federal funding that comes from a handful of blue states to keep their populaces from... well, starving to death really.

Entire thing's fucked. You'd think eating the rich would be a more popular sentiment, but we gotta focus on the real important stuff like uhh... sports, or bathrooms, or which color suit the President is wearing today instead. :shrug

/rant lol

Meanwhile, step foot in any blue city and look at all the hungry people. As a matter of fact, look at how the resources red states are rapidly losing are utilized…

 
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Meanwhile, step foot in any blue city and look at all the hungry people. As a matter of fact, look at how the resources red states are rapidly losing are utilized…

1717433817663.png

Lol.

To be fair, cost of every day necessities like food, housing, wifi (yes, wifi is considered a necessity imo nowadays) are through the roof no matter where you are, red or blue.

But I will say, the point about resources that Raine made are abundantly clear and accurate. Unemployment in MA, max per week was something like a shade over $1000. And this is up to 30 weeks without extensions.

In Florida? Max unemployment per week is $275! For a max of 23 weeks!

It's nearly impossible to live off 1k per week in MA. But 275, even in Florida is INSANE. That's about what GROCERIES cost weekly now. And go ahead, keep voting Republican you fucking degenerates. Ron DeSantis has done oh so much for the needy people in the state. If you're someone that lives outside Florida, DeSantis' biggest contributions to Florida would be screwing people out of COVID funding, running an absolutely pathetic bid for president, applying only negative connotation to woke to where schools are essentially fascist extensions of his governorship and picking a fight with Disney that he SHOULD have lost, but somehow blackmailed Disney into making it look like they lost.
 

Mark

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View attachment 16577

Lol.

To be fair, cost of every day necessities like food, housing, wifi (yes, wifi is considered a necessity imo nowadays) are through the roof no matter where you are, red or blue.

But I will say, the point about resources that Raine made are abundantly clear and accurate. Unemployment in MA, max per week was something like a shade over $1000. And this is up to 30 weeks without extensions.

In Florida? Max unemployment per week is $275! For a max of 23 weeks!

It's nearly impossible to live off 1k per week in MA. But 275, even in Florida is INSANE. That's about what GROCERIES cost weekly now. And go ahead, keep voting Republican you fucking degenerates. Ron DeSantis has done oh so much for the needy people in the state. If you're someone that lives outside Florida, DeSantis' biggest contributions to Florida would be screwing people out of COVID funding, running an absolutely pathetic bid for president, applying only negative connotation to woke to where schools are essentially fascist extensions of his governorship and picking a fight with Disney that he SHOULD have lost, but somehow blackmailed Disney into making it look like they lost.

Yeah, I dunno what’s broken with that link. I messed up the spoiler tag the first time. But, here’s the article:

IMG_8067.jpeg

Point being… you have women out there dying because they don’t have a choice, and here’s an example of a city where choices are readily available and free of charge in most instances, and this is what still happens.
 
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Raine

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Meanwhile, step foot in any blue city and look at all the hungry people. As a matter of fact, look at how the resources red states are rapidly losing are utilized…
Oh, no doubt. The entire concept of "homeless" was radically different back home compared to, say, Philadelphia. I knew plenty of homeless people - couch surfer or transient people would perhaps be a better descriptor, but still they had no home - but they weren't, you know, out on the streets. Under bridges, in alleyways, just kind of stuck wherever people didn't want them. That's not what life was like. But that is, obviously, the way homelessness is in Philly. I just... the first time I saw someone living like that, with everyone around me ignoring them, and it wasn't some fictional dystopian future on TV? Yeah that hit different.

The only real difference between a red state and a blue state is how far down you can fall. Or, perhaps, how high you can climb before you fall. While making ends meet in blue states is hard enough as it is, even if you work two full-time jobs in a red state, whether that's at the Federal Minimum of $7.25 or say Ohio's $10.45, you're not making enough to be able to move and live in a better place on your own. You're just not. And the thresholds on State benefits are intentionally rigged so that there's an enormous chasm between being poor and being vaguely comfortable - as soon as you can see that bottom rung of comfort on the horizon, your benefits start getting cut into or just stop entirely. You very much reach a point, and not terribly far into the process I might add, where you're earning less with every dinky little COLI you get.

And where, as you say, blue states waste taxpayer money hand over fist on honestly malicious ass shit like homeless-proofing fucking park benches, or just do some good old fashioned misappropriation, red states - or purple states on their way to becoming red ones - (intentionally) can't even keep their public libraries open. Funding the arts, public parks, community centers? Absolute pipe dream unless some "independently wealthy" jackass wants to slap their name on something.

There's sadly no accounting for ridiculously fucked up people (I both kinda do and absolutely do not want to understand the logistics of having a fetus just rotting on a bus seat?!), but like... yeah, those resources are important and shouldn't be so hard to come by. For anyone, anywhere. :shake

To be fair, cost of every day necessities like food, housing, wifi (yes, wifi is considered a necessity imo nowadays) are through the roof no matter where you are, red or blue.
Internet should absolutely be considered a necessity, yes. Same thing with a cellphone, whether it's a smartphone or not - I don't know if it's still the case, but back during Obama's presidency the Lifeline benefit ended up getting extended to prepaid cellphones, those kind of obnoxious Tracfones and such, for this very reason. The "Obamaphone," as it were. :giggle

'Cause like, yeah, you legitimately actually can't just walk into most places these days and submit a job application. In my hometown you had to do it online, for everything from the local (regional) grocery chain to the Staples, Best Buy, etc., over in the nearby-ish mall. No idea how the fuck you're supposed to accomplish that when you can barely afford food or rent, but hey - that's the people's problem, right? :facepalm

Meanwhile my mother's cable + internet package spiked $85 with no warning because these ghouls still do the "promotional rate" bullshit and you have to call and babysit them every ~11 months, to get your chain jerked for no discernible fucking reason. And don't get me started on the prevalence of fucking Rent-A-Centers and Payday Loans(harks) in predominately poor areas. I don't think I've seen a single one of either of those since moving up here! Rancid dogshit people I swear to fucking Baphomet...

Anyway I forgot what I was bitching about this time so we'll stop there. Y'all get the point anyway. :giggle
 
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