CA Canadian Politics Thread

[MC74]

Might as well start one up for the peeps North of the border. Gonna start this off with what I mentioned in the September debate thread, so to summarize:

-The NDPs have ended the Confidence & Supply agreement with the Liberals after being pressured by the Tories to do so, meaning that there's a possibility of an early election happening depending on how the vote of confidence goes with the House of Commons.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-ndp-ending-agreement-1.7312910

-Polls are currently projecting a Conservative majority government.

https://338canada.com/federal.htm

 

[Ancle Suck]

Posting to say thanks for starting the thread and to watch it!

 

[Kat]

Do "conservative" and "liberal" mean the same in Canada as they do in the USA?

 

[MC74]

Do "conservative" and "liberal" mean the same in Canada as they do in the USA?

They're fairly similar, granted our Conservative Party seems to be trending more towards being like their southern counterparts, so yeah....

 

[Ancle Suck]

They're fairly similar, granted our Conservative Party seems to be trending more towards being like their southern counterparts, so yeah....

My Canadian relatives in rural Ontario love everything Trump.

 

[MC74]

Just take out the religious stuff and replace that with the constant preaching about "Canadian values" and there you go!

 

[Ancle Suck]

I need to investigate the extended family in Quebec to see what's going on there politics wise. Unfortunately my name is way too French Canadian to know who is close enough of a relative. The ones in Ontario are from the other side of the family and I've actually met them through family reunions my great grandmother used to have (she had 11 children, with only my grandmother moving to the US).

 

[MC74]

My Canadian relatives in rural Ontario love everything Trump.

Yeah, can confirm. It's nothing to go outside and see someone flying a "Fuck Trudeau" flag or plastering stickers of that very logo on their vehicles. People in those areas tend to be hardcore conservatives down to the very core.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Relevant:



@canadaguy

I don't know off the top of my head who else is Canadian.

@Smacktard do you still count?

 

[shortkut]

@Smacktard do you still count

Only if he uses his fingers

 

[MC74]

In case anyone's wondering about this Pierre Poilievre fellow and what his platform is, well, there is no platform. It's the same bullshit where they talk about axing the carbon tax (the slogan being Axe the Tax), plus the attacks on Justin Trudeau. He's a climate change denier, has voted against support for Ukraine repeatedly, he's against reduced price of insulin, against daycare, against pretty much anything the Liberals voted for. They're always talking about how they're going to reverse what Trudeau did without even going into detail what needs to be reversed and how to go about doing that.

I should also note his behavior at the House of Commons is notoriously disrespectful to the point of dysfunction, and his frequent misinformation to the public is alarming. For example, he went on a rant saying puberty blockers should only be for adults but, of course, adults have already experienced puberty....the dumbass. Not to mention he's on the same damn campaign as the GOP in wanting to crack down on "gender ideology".

To quote one of my friends, think of him as a Thomas Mulcair type, attempting to follow the footsteps of a near-messianic savior of the party. Like Mulcair tried to follow in Jack Layton's footsteps, Poilievre is merely following in the footsteps of Stephen Harper (a guy who was notoriously authoritarian might I add).

 

[dimmerwit]

You could say he has the concepts of a plan.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

You could say he has the concepts of a plan.

 

[Mark]

Just take out the religious stuff and replace that with the constant preaching about "Canadian values" and there you go!

That’s the thing… the two are viewed as interchangeable by that crowd here.

It’s unfortunate that y’all are dealing with similar shit, it really is. Considering how aware we as “civilized” countries of the plight of other countries and the hardships they face… you’d think we’d all be collectively making strides to avoid that outcome or reverting to it or however you want to look at it.

I hope that in our lifetime we’re able to see things get better. I’m optimistic, but, I’m also realistic… so I won’t hold my breath for it. I guess all we really can do is try to be good people, hope it spreads, and see what happens.

 

[MC74]

That’s the thing… the two are viewed as interchangeable by that crowd here.

It’s unfortunate that y’all are dealing with similar shit, it really is. Considering how aware we as “civilized” countries of the plight of other countries and the hardships they face… you’d think we’d all be collectively making strides to avoid that outcome or reverting to it or however you want to look at it.

I hope that in our lifetime we’re able to see things get better. I’m optimistic, but, I’m also realistic… so I won’t hold my breath for it. I guess all we really can do is try to be good people, hope it spreads, and see what happens.

That's the problem. We hope things do get better and we manage to roll through the rough patches, but realistically, the fact of the matter is the cycle ends up repeating itself and that's the infuriating part in all this.

Remember when you talked about the complacency setting in yesterday? The reason I said we're at that point already is because it sure feels like it here. This has been a consistent thing with Canadian politics. One of the big 2 (Liberals or Conservatives) win and keep power until their leader slowly loses popularity. Then they lose the election, the other party takes over and the cycle repeats itself until the former party changes leadership and wins after the incumbent overstays their welcome.

Back in 2015, it was "anybody but Harper", and so most people flocked to the Liberals. But now that people are tired of Trudeau, it's anyone but him, and wanna guess who has the best chance of removing him from office? You guessed it, the Conservatives.

 

[MC74]

I need to investigate the extended family in Quebec to see what's going on there politics wise. Unfortunately my name is way too French Canadian to know who is close enough of a relative. The ones in Ontario are from the other side of the family and I've actually met them through family reunions my great grandmother used to have (she had 11 children, with only my grandmother moving to the US).

I can give you some intel of what's happening in Quebec, and I shit you not, discussing that would be opening up another whole can of worms.

 

[Mark]

That's the problem. We hope things do get better and we manage to roll through the rough patches, but realistically, the fact of the matter is the cycle ends up repeating itself and that's the infuriating part in all this.

…I don’t know much about Canadia, but I assume it has been like that since your childhood, only progressively getting worse, similar to here?

Remember when you talked about the complacency setting in yesterday? The reason I said we're at that point already is because it sure feels like it here. This has been a consistent thing with Canadian politics. One of the big 2 (Liberals or Conservatives) win and keep power until their leader slowly loses popularity. Then they lose the election, the other party takes over and the cycle repeats itself until the former party changes leadership and wins after the incumbent overstays their welcome.

Yeah, you’re pretty much describing the last 20+ years of politics here… at a local and national scale.

Back in 2015, it was "anybody but Harper", and so most people flocked to the Liberals. But now that people are tired of Trudeau, it's anyone but him, and wanna guess who has the best chance of removing him from office? You guessed it, the Conservatives.

This is also part of the reason I’m reluctant to support either candidate here… It’s too much of a gamble. Sure, it’s obvious what we lose if Trump wins, but, how many people consider the damage Harris could do? None of those people at the top truly represent us regular people, they’re all about preserving and pushing their own brand… not looking out for us. You can win an election based on “I’m not the other guy”, but, what are you gonna do for the rest of the term?

 

[MC74]

…I don’t know much about Canadia, but I assume it has been like that since your childhood, only progressively getting worse, similar to here?

That is correct, it has been this way even before my time.

Yeah, you’re pretty much describing the last 20+ years of politics here… at a local and national scale.

Hence why I despise the 2-party system. It's a back-and-forth endless cycle of nothing getting done because you have them both doing the opposite of one another, which often leads to any positive strides being undone if the other party opposes it (more often than not, the Conservatives).

This is also part of the reason I’m reluctant to support either candidate here… It’s too much of a gamble. Sure, it’s obvious what we lose if Trump wins, but, how many people consider the damage Harris could do? None of those people at the top truly represent us regular people, they’re all about preserving and pushing their own brand… not looking out for us. You can win an election based on “I’m not the other guy”, but, what are you gonna do for the rest of the term?

Exactly the point, what it comes down to is the lesser of the 2 evils and the fact that it's this way is sad because while the lesser might be the more favorable option, it isn't necessarily the one we truly need to make the country a better place to live.

 

[Kat]

This is also part of the reason I’m reluctant to support either candidate here… It’s too much of a gamble. Sure, it’s obvious what we lose if Trump wins, but, how many people consider the damage Harris could do? None of those people at the top truly represent us regular people, they’re all about preserving and pushing their own brand… not looking out for us. You can win an election based on “I’m not the other guy”, but, what are you gonna do for the rest of the term?

Harris has much more to her platform than "I'm not Trump or Biden". She's not perfect, of course, and I don't agree with her on everything, but I'm actually cautiously excited for her to be elected.

So yes, I've considered both the damage and good she can do.

 

[Smacktard]

It's the same bullshit where they talk about axing the carbon tax (the slogan being Axe the Tax), plus the attacks on Justin Trudeau. He's a climate change denier, has voted against support for Ukraine repeatedly, he's against reduced price of insulin, against daycare, against pretty much anything the Liberals voted for.

I didn't realize Polievre was THAT bad. In truth I haven't been following CanPol much.

CanPol just seems hopeless ATM to be honest. The NDP is in shambles, the Liberals are exacerbating many of the huge problems we have in the country, and Cons also want to exacerbate many problems in the country. The Left uses empty "woke politics" messaging to appeal to voters while the Right uses racist dogwhistles. Neither party has Canadians' interests at heart. Both care only about getting elected and about ensuring multinational corporations getting a steady supply of minimum wage labor in the form of immigrants we can't effectively house.

tl;dr: shits fucked

 

[MC74]

I didn't realize Polievre was THAT bad. In truth I haven't been following CanPol much.

Forgot to mention Poilievre rubbed elbows with the Freedom Convoy group too, and he falsely claims that Nazis were socialists, which happens to be a long-favored talking point by the far-right as a recruitment tool. Yeah, he's one of those nutjobs.

Trudeau was lucky he wasn't booted in 2019. Big difference is, Andrew Scheer was incredibly uncharismatic, but Pierre on the other hand knows how to twist narratives and push buttons to bring people to support him.

 

[canadaguy]

Like Trudeau fucking sucks, but he's still somehow better than Poilievre

 

[MC74]

Like Trudeau fucking sucks, but he's still somehow better than Poilievre

And that's sad, man. The fact that we're in this kind of position where no matter which of the big 2 win, we're in a lose-lose situation. Liberals win and we're stuck with that guy, and the problems keep on getting worse. Conservatives win and they just do the opposite of the Liberals and also fuck up the country in their own way.

Kelly is right, neither of them truly represent us, just themselves and corporations they empower.

 

[canadaguy]

Both care only about getting elected and about ensuring multinational corporations getting a steady supply of minimum wage labor in the form of immigrants we can't effectively house.

They both have allowed greater and greater abuse of the TFW program to the detriment of Canadians and the workers being brought in.

Neither side seems interested at all to fix it in any substantial way, so we will just keep going until the whole system breaks.

 

[TD]

Polievre is a baby JD Vance, that's terrifying.

Trudeau has not been great, sure he's done some good things, but he's also done some shitty things.

Singh is not great either and even if he was, our country is far too racist to ever put him in.

I suppose at least it's not two old men mumbling at eachother, so there's that.

It's tough having three parties where one is left (NDP), one leans slightly left but is more centrist (Liberal), and then obviously the right wingers (Conservatives).

I live in a part where I see three flags regularly: Fuck Trudeau, Trump 2024, and Polievre 2025.

The biggest chance this country had for positive change died with Jack Layton.

 

[MC74]

They both have allowed greater and greater abuse of the TFW program to the detriment of Canadians and the workers being brought in.

Neither side seems interested at all to fix it in any substantial way, so we will just keep going until the whole system breaks.

Yup, because for companies (Tim's is one example of this), it allows them to have a greater degree of control over their employees' lives. Remember how there were reports of companies providing spaces for TFWs to live and operated in the same manner as company towns work? That's essentially what it is. They get the benefit of basically suppressing peoples' wages and exploiting them for what might as well be a loophole for slavery.

 

[MC74]

The biggest chance this country had for positive change died with Jack Layton.

Jack Layton was my guy. He was the best politician we've had and our best shot at a brighter future. Pissed me the fuck off when he lost to Harper.

May he rest in peace. There's never been another quite like him.

 

[canadaguy]

Yup, because for companies (Tim's is one example of this), it allows them to have a greater degree of control over their employees' lives. Remember how there were reports of companies providing spaces for TFWs to live and operated in the same manner as company towns work? That's essentially what it is. They get the benefit of basically suppressing peoples' wages and exploiting them for what might as well be a loophole for slavery.

Yeah that's why I said it's to the detriment of the workers too.

And they are coming from places with laxer safety regulations and labor protections, so employers will do very illegal shit and the workers either don't realize or of they do, are too fearful of losing the job and being sent back home, so they just put up with it.

Shits fucked. And neither LPC nor CPC will even acknowledge there might be a problem.

 

[MC74]

Yeah that's why I said it's to the detriment of the workers too.

And they are coming from places with laxer safety regulations and labor protections, so employers will do very illegal shit and the workers either don't realize or of they do, are too fearful of losing the job and being sent back home, so they just put up with it.

And yet, the blame will be placed upon the immigrant workers themselves for "stealing our jobs" when it's in fact, the companies themselves abusing the fuck out of this strategy while the government themselves idly sits by and allows it to happen. It ain't right.

Shits fucked. And neither LPC nor CPC will even acknowledge there might be a problem.

Shit's fucked alright, Canada's literally being bent over the table while the two take turns raping the ever loving shit out of this country, and the sad part about it is, there seems to be no end to it in sight. We had our chance of bucking the trend with Jack Layton and ended up completely pissing it away, and to make matters worse, the poor guy died. The NDPs were never able to recover, so any remote chance of making up for that epic blunder completely died with him.

And this is where we are now. It's fucking depressing seeing how we set ourselves up for this.

 

[Smacktard]

And yet, the blame will be placed upon the immigrant workers themselves for "stealing our jobs" when it's in fact, the companies themselves abusing the fuck out of this strategy while the government themselves idly sits by and allows it to happen. It ain't right.

Luckily I haven't seen as much of that as you'd might suspect. Most people blame the government but are kind to the immigrants. My area of Canada is rural and was very homogenous up until about 8 years ago when we started getting a LOT of Indian students. Now every second worker in service industries is Indian. Still, people treat them nicely and say good things about them -- even pity them, really, for the shit situations they've been out into here. No housing, dangerous housing conditions, bad public transport, far from uni, etc.

 

[MC74]

Luckily I haven't seen as much of that as you'd might suspect. Most people blame the government but are kind to the immigrants. My area of Canada is rural and was very homogenous up until about 8 years ago when we started getting a LOT of Indian students. Now every second worker in service industries is Indian. Still, people treat them nicely and say good things about them -- even pity them, really, for the shit situations they've been out into here. No housing, dangerous housing conditions, bad public transport, far from uni, etc.

That's good, at least it shows that there are a good share of the people not buying into the rhetoric from the right.

 

[Smacktard]

That's good, at least it shows that there are a good share of the people not buying into the rhetoric from the right.

It would be empty rhetoric because based on what I've read, Cons don't seem to care about reducing immigration or fixing the student-to-citizen pipeline.

 

[MC74]

It would be empty rhetoric because based on what I've read, Cons don't seem to care about reducing immigration or fixing the student-to-citizen pipeline.

Agreed, nothing indicates that they care about any of those things.

 

[MC74]

The Quebec byelection results are in, and the Liberals have been dealt yet another blow as a riding that have been held by the Liberals for much of the last century has been lost to the Bloc Québécois.

The loss marks Trudeau's second in what was once a safe Liberal seat, and is sure to raise further doubts about his status as party leader.

Justin Trudeau under pressure as his party loses Montreal election

Victory by separatist Québécois candidate in once-safe Liberal seat raises questions over Canadian PM’s leadership

www.theguardian.com

 

[canadaguy]

Trudeau doesn't seem self aware enough to realize a lot of people's problem is him

 

[MC74]

Trudeau doesn't seem self aware enough to realize a lot of people's problem is him

People have grown tired over him. He's been here for almost a decade, a lot of the problems we've been dealing with have been exasperated, and at this point, people are so frustrated they're ready for change.

Trudeau's goose is cooked, and with the Liberals' popularity having fell off a cliff, the election for them is theirs to lose.

 

[dimmerwit]

The problem is who would replace him? There was a poll in the summer asking people whether they would be more or less likely to vote Liberal with different leaders and all of them were net negative. The only person in the single digits negative was Mark Carney.

 

[MC74]

The problem is who would replace him? There was a poll in the summer asking people whether they would be more or less likely to vote Liberal with different leaders and all of them were net negative. The only person in the single digits negative was Mark Carney.

Don't think it matters, the damage is already done. People are fed up and want the Liberals out. Unfortunately, that means people are going to flock to Poilievre as the answer when he sure as shit isn't.

 

[MC74]

The problem is who would replace him? There was a poll in the summer asking people whether they would be more or less likely to vote Liberal with different leaders and all of them were net negative. The only person in the single digits negative was Mark Carney.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind with the outlook projecting the Liberals getting the boot. Trudeau could resign, but that poses a big risk because if they end up having their asses handed to them, that's a real bad look for the new leader. They have to bear the brunt of that and carry the stink of an incredibly humiliating defeat with them going forward.